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7 hours ago, Old Guy said:

I don't believe I said, don't give him a shot. My point was one more serious concussion and he's going to have to retire or it would be in his best interest. 

I'm not convinced Tonyan is going to get a massive day day. I think he was worthy of Pro-Bowl consideration, he was not worthy of all pro honors IMO. Kelce and Waller clearly were more deserving. 

Given our cap space is about -40m next season, will be hard for us to re-sign Tonyan if he gets any sort of pay day. He would have to regress very badly to be affordable for us. We might have to try regardless though if Jace doesn't come through.

I'll be surprised if Jace doesn't make the roster when eligible.

Another thing to remember is the practice squad rules of calling people up are active again I think so you may not need as many ST players on the 53

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3 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

Given our cap space is about -40m next season, will be hard for us to re-sign Tonyan if he gets any sort of pay day. He would have to regress very badly to be affordable for us. We might have to try regardless though if Jace doesn't come through.

I'll be surprised if Jace doesn't make the roster when eligible.

Another thing to remember is the practice squad rules of calling people up are active again I think so you may not need as many ST players on the 53

Good point! 

I don't think we'll have a grasp of our 2022 cap situation until the Rodgers situation is done with. If he's back there are going to be a lot of guys who are cut in the off season for sure. Re-signing our own will be difficult but I have to believe we find a way to keep at least one of these three: Adams, MVS or Tonyan. Tonyan seems the most likely to me. 

That alone is another reason why Rodgers last year is sooner than later. He won't be under center in 2022. 

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6 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

Another thing to remember is the practice squad rules of calling people up are active again I think so you may not need as many ST players on the 53

Thanks for that helpful note and reminder, I'd wondered about that.  

In a sense that adds other flexibility, in terms of injury-depth coverage.  Even if a position group seems thin due to injury, it's a little easier to carry an extra injury-insurance depth guy from the PS, without needing to immediately start tweaking the 53.  

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10 hours ago, Old Guy said:

Good point! 

I don't think we'll have a grasp of our 2022 cap situation until the Rodgers situation is done with. If he's back there are going to be a lot of guys who are cut in the off season for sure. Re-signing our own will be difficult but I have to believe we find a way to keep at least one of these three: Adams, MVS or Tonyan. Tonyan seems the most likely to me. 

That alone is another reason why Rodgers last year is sooner than later. He won't be under center in 2022. 

It makes you wonder what we offered Rodgers in the way of a contract. I would love Rodgers to stay long term but it does seem like we have burnt our bridges cap wise in terms of keeping him. If Rodgers leaves then the cap situation will be very difficult so if he stays it looks unmanageable. 

Probably the only scenario where the cap situation looks OK is if he retires and we claim back a lot of the cap money. Hence why I'm OK with a no trade unless we get crazy value stance.

I'd probably agree with your assessment about one of the three. I expect Adams to be gone. If Jace did break through and Deguara works out then Tonyan would probably be expendable and they could try and sign MVS. 

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1 hour ago, mikemike778 said:

It makes you wonder what we offered Rodgers in the way of a contract. I would love Rodgers to stay long term but it does seem like we have burnt our bridges cap wise in terms of keeping him. If Rodgers leaves then the cap situation will be very difficult so if he stays it looks unmanageable. 

Probably the only scenario where the cap situation looks OK is if he retires and we claim back a lot of the cap money. Hence why I'm OK with a no trade unless we get crazy value stance.

I'd probably agree with your assessment about one of the three. I expect Adams to be gone. If Jace did break through and Deguara works out then Tonyan would probably be expendable and they could try and sign MVS. 

I tend to disagree. If we trade him this year, we recoup between 2021 and 2022, 40 million. 

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1 hour ago, mikemike778 said:

I expect Adams to be gone.

What are you basing your expectation on?

I wouldnt think we'd redo AR's contract w/o freeing up some cash. It would seem logical.....whether it happens is anybodies guess. 

In theory, that cash could be used to extend Adams.

If that happens, do you think Adams would still be reticent to extend?

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10 minutes ago, Leader said:

What are you basing your expectation on?

I wouldnt think we'd redo AR's contract w/o freeing up some cash. It would seem logical.....whether it happens is anybodies guess. 

In theory, that cash could be used to extend Adams.

If that happens, do you think Adams would still be reticent to extend?

I think some of that will depend on were Rodgers goes.  You know wherever Rodgers goes, he's going to beat the drum for Adams.  Adams might follow him if team X can afford him.

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7 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

If Rodgers leaves then the cap situation will be very difficult so if he stays it looks unmanageable. 

They can fit Rodgers into the cap without too much trouble. Even Adams could theoretically be squeezed in without losing any significant players, though they would have restructure Bak/Clark again. If Rodgers is traded, they will be in pretty good shape. 

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7 hours ago, Leader said:

What are you basing your expectation on?

I wouldnt think we'd redo AR's contract w/o freeing up some cash. It would seem logical.....whether it happens is anybodies guess. 

In theory, that cash could be used to extend Adams.

If that happens, do you think Adams would still be reticent to extend?

I think if he was going to be extended, he would have done. Adams is one of the few players on the roster who we haven't kicked their cap down he road.

He is going to demand a huge contract - its money we don't have. We would have to kick as much of it into the future as possible so the cap hits down the line would be astronomical for an ageing receiver with an injury history.

Generally speaking I'm a believer in spending within your means. I don't like all the restructures and void years and so on. They make sense if you are going all in 

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3 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

I think if he was going to be extended, he would have done. Adams is one of the few players on the roster who we haven't kicked their cap down he road.

He is going to demand a huge contract - its money we don't have. We would have to kick as much of it into the future as possible so the cap hits down the line would be astronomical for an ageing receiver with an injury history.

Generally speaking I'm a believer in spending within your means. I don't like all the restructures and void years and so on. They make sense if you are going all in 

That's basically what the Packers did for 21 and 22 and frickin Covid screwed them big time.  Things were pretty well set up but no fans at games, lowered salary cap, etc. put the ka bosh on everything.  Now the Packers are scrambling from that plus the who the heck knows what's going on Rodgers situation.  Makes for interesting forum fodder but it sure does one a little bit nervous.  

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5 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

I think if he was going to be extended, he would have done. Adams is one of the few players on the roster who we haven't kicked their cap down he road.

I imagine it's happened more frequently than I've taken notice of or can recall - but isnt it usual practice for GB to hold off extending players until they're entering their final/contract year (preferably....) or around the FA period?

AR's the one that sticks out as getting extended outside those windows.

If that's remotely the case, then the fact Adams hasnt been extended already might not be indicative of anything more than A) They had more pressing contracts to address - and - B). They're tight on cash.

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On 6/12/2021 at 3:27 AM, mikemike778 said:

Given our cap space is about -40m next season, will be hard for us to re-sign Tonyan if he gets any sort of pay day. He would have to regress very badly to be affordable for us. We might have to try regardless though if Jace doesn't come through.

Tonyan could be as good or better but have "worse" stats if his insane rate stats come back to merely above-average - his catch and TDs:rec were through the roof, I'd expect him to have a 45-500-6 season this year, maybe a slight bump but maybe not, since I don't really see his usage going up THAT much. Even it does, 80 targets (over his 59 last season) still puts him in the range of 60-700-8, which is good but not necessarily "we need to pay this guy A LOT OF MONEY RIGHT NOW" numbers. 

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6 hours ago, Leader said:

I imagine it's happened more frequently than I've taken notice of or can recall - but isnt it usual practice for GB to hold off extending players until they're entering their final/contract year (preferably....) or around the FA period?

AR's the one that sticks out as getting extended outside those windows.

If that's remotely the case, then the fact Adams hasnt been extended already might not be indicative of anything more than A) They had more pressing contracts to address - and - B). They're tight on cash.

Yes but this is a different year to any other.

It seems half the roster have had their contract restructured/extended to lower their 2021 cap hit and push that money into future years.

An Adams extension could do precisely that - lower the cap hit in 2021 with (much) bigger hits in future years. Adams is one of the few players on the roster where there is scope to kick his cap hits into the future where they haven't done that. 

Given pretty much every transaction they have made has been to kick cap,  if they were going to extend Adams they would have done it by now and used it to kick his cap hits into the future. 

 

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7 hours ago, coachbuns said:

That's basically what the Packers did for 21 and 22 and frickin Covid screwed them big time.  Things were pretty well set up but no fans at games, lowered salary cap, etc. put the ka bosh on everything.  Now the Packers are scrambling from that plus the who the heck knows what's going on Rodgers situation.  Makes for interesting forum fodder but it sure does one a little bit nervous.  

Yep ... Covid seems to have pushed them from one extreme (sensible) to another (reckless) though.

The signing of Campbell seems to sum up the new extreme really.  We were probably OK at linebacker but signed another guy who may be depth and stuck most of the money into the 2022 cap.

To me, the only way it makes sense is if they aren't planning on being competitive in 2022 so you can lump as much cap into then as possible. Or to put it another way, its genuine all-in for 2021. As in there is nothing left for next year.  

And then you have the Rodgers situation  which is why they probably wont trade him this year because it would utterly screw the entire off-season. 

 

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5 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Tonyan could be as good or better but have "worse" stats if his insane rate stats come back to merely above-average - his catch and TDs:rec were through the roof, I'd expect him to have a 45-500-6 season this year, maybe a slight bump but maybe not, since I don't really see his usage going up THAT much. Even it does, 80 targets (over his 59 last season) still puts him in the range of 60-700-8, which is good but not necessarily "we need to pay this guy A LOT OF MONEY RIGHT NOW" numbers. 

But still probably more than we can afford ...   which isn't much

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