2018 Free Agency - Prospects for GB

[Norm]

28 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I'm sure I'm wrong (once in a while ) but so are the "draft and develop and don't cut a guy before year 4" crowd too. There is no hard-and-fast rule there, and you can't manage a team with a hard-and-fast rule like that. I have no problem "developing" a player and giving him as much time needed to see whether he is going to become something.....as long as it doesn't happen at the expense of the team and its goals. 

ToT likes your posts. IDK how you continue to walk the Earth. I would have ended it all 50 likes ago lol

I don't claim to always be right by any means, I think the other side swears they always knew every answer. I think SIGN EVERYONE AT EVERY POSITION EVERY PLAYER NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED EVERYONE AVAILABLE IS AN UPGRADE is stupid and unrealistic.

[packfanfb]

3 minutes ago, Norm said:

ToT likes your posts. IDK how you continue to walk the Earth. I would have ended it all 50 likes ago lol

I don't claim to always be right by any means, I think the other side swears they always knew every answer. I think SIGN EVERYONE AT EVERY POSITION EVERY PLAYER NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED EVERYONE AVAILABLE IS AN UPGRADE is stupid and unrealistic.

For 2018, I'll be satisfied with simply adding one more EDGE guy. Other positions still need work on the back end, and I still think we are gambling at WR with the 3 rooks, but whatever, we can survive. I like the recent moves Gute has made at ILB. Instead of settling with Martini and Thomas, he went and got Morrison and Toomer. Both are upgrades IMO. I'd like to see a similar move at EDGE. I like Gilbert's upside, but the injury history to Perry/Matthews scares me. If they still want to keep Fackrell, fine, I really don't care one way or the other about him. 

[Arthur Penske]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

Yep he was one of them. Now hes an expert. 

Expert on how Biegel is better than TJ Watt?

[TheOnlyThing]

53 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

For 2018, I'll be satisfied with simply adding one more EDGE guy. Other positions still need work on the back end, and I still think we are gambling at WR with the 3 rooks, but whatever, we can survive. I like the recent moves Gute has made at ILB. Instead of settling with Martini and Thomas, he went and got Morrison and Toomer. Both are upgrades IMO. I'd like to see a similar move at EDGE. I like Gilbert's upside, but the injury history to Perry/Matthews scares me. If they still want to keep Fackrell, fine, I really don't care one way or the other about him. 

 I too remain hopeful that after game 1 Gute will add a veteran (and not have to pay full rate) at OLB and for the very reasons you state -- injury history of the starters, Gilbert's inexperience and nothing behind them.

Gute already disposed of Odom & Biegel and Pettine has of course moved Reggie into the primary backup role, so they are obviously willing to make the moves necessary to improve what most everyone recognizes to be problematic position. The other possibility is that Junior is going to scheme such that only 3 OLBers see the field the vast majority of the time.

However, add one more contributor (and a little health for the 2 starters) at OLB and that really is a potentially formidable front 9 on D, with the safeties being a big unknown.

 

[Norm]

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

For 2018, I'll be satisfied with simply adding one more EDGE guy. Other positions still need work on the back end, and I still think we are gambling at WR with the 3 rooks, but whatever, we can survive. I like the recent moves Gute has made at ILB. Instead of settling with Martini and Thomas, he went and got Morrison and Toomer. Both are upgrades IMO. I'd like to see a similar move at EDGE. I like Gilbert's upside, but the injury history to Perry/Matthews scares me. If they still want to keep Fackrell, fine, I really don't care one way or the other about him. 

I actually agree with all of this word for word. 

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, Norm said:

I actually agree with all of this word for word. 

I better screenshot this.

[Cheech]

2 hours ago, packfanfb said:

For 2018, I'll be satisfied with simply adding one more EDGE guy. Other positions still need work on the back end, and I still think we are gambling at WR with the 3 rooks, but whatever, we can survive. I like the recent moves Gute has made at ILB. Instead of settling with Martini and Thomas, he went and got Morrison and Toomer. Both are upgrades IMO. I'd like to see a similar move at EDGE. I like Gilbert's upside, but the injury history to Perry/Matthews scares me. If they still want to keep Fackrell, fine, I really don't care one way or the other about him. 

I logged on to say what you just said.  

It seems like every year there is one position that everyone can see is just a weak link.  *Not knowing what the new D is going to look like*, most fans and beat writers (hell even Matthews himself) see the depth at this position as a problem.

So for the "well who the heck should they have signed, it's not Gutes fault that his guys got injured!!!" group:

The following EDGE players are available on a date that we can see the depth is an issue:

John Simon, Anthony Zettle, Steven Means, Kony Ealy, Nate Orchard, and Jayrone Elliot.

I think most reasonable folks would agree that some of these guys are better than our 4th OLB, if not our 3rd.  I'm just clinging on to hope that Gute is waiting until after week 1.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

41 minutes ago, Cheech said:

The following EDGE players are available on a date that we can see the depth is an issue:

John Simon, Anthony Zettle, Steven Means, Kony Ealy, Nate Orchard, and Jayrone Elliot.

I think most reasonable folks would agree that some of these guys are better than our 4th OLB, if not our 3rd.  I'm just clinging on to hope that Gute is waiting until after week 1.

Help me out, because I am not getting something.  Not hacking on you, just have a question.

I keep seeing Steven Means brought up, but he has been in the league 6 years, played in 25 games, and has 2 sacks total.  Why does he get put forth in so many places as a potential solution as an edge rusher?

[HighCalebR]

52 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Help me out, because I am not getting something.  Not hacking on you, just have a question.

I keep seeing Steven Means brought up, but he has been in the league 6 years, played in 25 games, and has 2 sacks total.  Why does he get put forth in so many places as a potential solution as an edge rusher?

Because he'd be a FA pickup obvi.

[Beast]

2 hours ago, Cheech said:

The following EDGE players are available on a date that we can see the depth is an issue:

John Simon, Anthony Zettle, Steven Means, Kony Ealy, Nate Orchard, and Jayrone Elliot.

I think most reasonable folks would agree that some of these guys are better than our 4th OLB, if not our 3rd.  I'm just clinging on to hope that Gute is waiting until after week 1.

I think most reasonable folks would agree that those guys AT THEIR BEST, are better than are 4th OLB, but they're not that consistent that they're at their best that often. 

John Simon might be more injury prone than Nick Perry and Clay Matthews

Means has played a total of 15 games in the last 5 years.

Ealy had all the physical talent in the world and can't stick on a roster, and edge needy teams are telling him no thanks for some reason.

So at their best, they're better than our 4th OLB, but at their worst, they're worse than our 4th OLB... on average, I'm not sure.

 

As for Anthony Zettle... I love the guys freaking effort! LOVE IT! ... I'm not quite sure why he's a FA right now, other than I know he's physically a bit limited and sorta a tweener. I'd love for them to bring him in and take a look... with the Lions, he gave the Vikings some troubles. But I freaking LOVED his motor in college and if he still has that, I'll always be willing to give him a look... but in college he's best spot was penetrating DT that struggled to hold the run, in the pros, it was sorta run stuffing edge guy. He's a tweener, and might be harder to find the right spot to use him, but if you can, out of college I would say, he'll give you all he's got with good leverage and relentless effort.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Just now, HighCalebR said:

Because he'd be a FA pickup obvi.

It is more than that- I have seen his name in pieces on free agency more than once.  I know he has had some sacks in preseason, but I just don't see preseason as that indicative since it is often against guys that won't make their respective rosters.

[Cheech]

13 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

It is more than that- I have seen his name in pieces on free agency more than once.  I know he has had some sacks in preseason, but I just don't see preseason as that indicative since it is often against guys that won't make their respective rosters.

 

Part of it is my belief that should Fackrell be required to play meaningful snaps, the D would suffer.  (And I still think he belongs in the NFL.  Hear me - I don't know how he'll be used this year, but if he's used in the same capacity that Dom used him in?  Noope.)

The other part is that Means, along with a lot of the other guys, offer just as much if not more from a pass rush perspective and they can all hold the edge better than KF in run D.

FWIW, Howie Roseman said that Means was the Eagles last cut.  Really not bad considering the wealth of talent that the Eagles have on the edge.

[Packerraymond]

The difference between a 5th year player on his 5th team with 2 sacks in his career and Kyler Fackrell isn't going to decide anything. 

We're just nitpicking and wanting to get excited about someone new.

Fackrell is a fine 4th OLB, color me completely unconcerned unless Matthews or Perry get hurt, and if they did I'd be totally expecting Steven Means to look over his head in the same matter I would Fackrell.

[Norm]

6 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

We're just nitpicking and wanting to get excited about someone new.

Such is often the case. If Kyler Fackrell was the 100% identical player that he is now, but he never played here, and we had Zettle, Means, or Orchard, I bet anything I'll ever own, that in that universe, if Kyler was available, people would be like WELL HE'S GOTTA BE BETTER THAN OUR 4TH OLB!!!!!! I guarantee we would want to sign our own trash if it was someone else's, probably pretty ******* often.

[packfanfb]

9 minutes ago, Norm said:

Such is often the case. If Kyler Fackrell was the 100% identical player that he is now, but he never played here, and we had Zettle, Means, or Orchard, I bet anything I'll ever own, that in that universe, if Kyler was available, people would be like WELL HE'S GOTTA BE BETTER THAN OUR 4TH OLB!!!!!! I guarantee we would want to sign our own trash if it was someone else's, probably pretty ******* often.

See I think a lot of people see it the opposite way. People defend Fackrell BECAUSE he's a Packer. They make excuses for him because he's a Packer. If he wasn't and someone said sign this man, you wouldn't hear anything except "that guy sucks."