2018 Draft Thread v.2 - DONE AND IN THE BOOKS

[BigD1123]

I think Edmund's is the pick of there. Only because he's the one Gruden mentioned earlier. He didn't by name but said the 19 yr old. Of course I'm probably way off base. But I could just see Gruden being like. Hey I told ya we liked they guy ya know.

[NightTrainLane]

1 hour ago, BABYLON 5 said:

lol I was to lazy to write it on all my platforms i figure i would just copy the link and push one button and send it to multiple places .But yes undestandable i have five scenarios what i think we should do in the draft that was just one of the five 

If you can copy the link you can copy the text.

[Silver&Black88]

3 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

If you can copy the link you can copy the text.

Hey man, he's really important.  You better not say things like that.

[BABYLON 5]

19 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Hey man, he's really important.  You better not say things like that.

I'm just a regular fan not important at all but I didn't think it was that much of a big of a deal it won't happen again .I will try to be more professional on here my apologies to the forum

[Madleg81]

On 4/20/2018 at 3:31 PM, Dessie said:

Agreed.

But if it happens and I said I wouldn't be shocked if it did with no sources or inside knowledge.... you don't need professional dart thrower to hit the bullseye once in a while. 

[Bitty 2.0]

On 4/20/2018 at 11:18 PM, big_palooka said:

 Not at 10. It would be a reach and likely a failure. OT at the top 10 has to be more than 'above average' 

I understand the trade back is ideal but if we can’t we have to bite the bullet and take an OT.

OT is by far the weakest spot in the tam, Penn is 35 years old coming off a down year and hurt and we absolutely no one at RT.

Would you feel comfortable if the Raiders starting OTs were Penn and Giacomini?

 

Plus I don’t think another CB or LB will make big a difference to our defense. The Raiders need another pass rushing DE to free up Mack.

 The pressure generated by a good pass rush will cover up a weak secondary but a good secondary with a poor pass rush always fails.

[Rich7sena]

1 hour ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

I understand the trade back is ideal but if we can’t we have to bite the bullet and take an OT.

OT is by far the weakest spot in the tam, Penn is 35 years old coming off a down year and hurt and we absolutely no one at RT.

Would you feel comfortable if the Raiders starting OTs were Penn and Giacomini?

 

Plus I don’t think another CB or LB will make big a difference to our defense. The Raiders need another pass rushing DE to free up Mack.

 The pressure generated by a good pass rush will cover up a weak secondary but a good secondary with a poor pass rush always fails.

I disagree. Based even on my own evaluation, taking Miller or McGlinchey would too obviously turn down greater talent for a greater need -- and I like both Miller and McGlinchey. I strongly doubt either player are rated as highly as the defensive players available based on how draft reporters have communicated NFL team's views on this class. 

I'm usually pro drafting for need within reason, but either tackle would be too much of a reach for need -- especially when a competent tackle could be had in rounds two or three.

[Bitty 2.0]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

I disagree. Based even on my own evaluation, taking Miller or McGlinchey would too obviously turn down greater talent for a greater need -- and I like both Miller and McGlinchey. I strongly doubt either player are rated as highly as the defensive players available based on how draft reporters have communicated NFL team's views on this class. 

I'm usually pro drafting for need within reason, but either tackle would be too much of a reach for need -- especially when a competent tackle could be had in rounds two or three.

 Even if it means a potential injury to  Derek Carr?

[big_palooka]

2 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

 Even if it means a potential injury to  Derek Carr?

This logic is ridiculous. Injuries are part of the game. You don't need to reach for OT out of fear of injury. Not when there are going to better options on the defensive side of the ball where the team has been historically weak.

Do the Raiders need to address OT, yes. Do they need to reach out of desperation, absolutely not. There are decent OT prospects rounds 2-4 to develop and they have some guys to develop. 

Not sure what they paid Cable, but you pay a coach like that to develop your talent so you don't have to be desperate drafting them.

[Chali21]

3 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

I understand the trade back is ideal but if we can’t we have to bite the bullet and take an OT.

OT is by far the weakest spot in the tam, Penn is 35 years old coming off a down year and hurt and we absolutely no one at RT.

Would you feel comfortable if the Raiders starting OTs were Penn and Giacomini?

 

Plus I don’t think another CB or LB will make big a difference to our defense. The Raiders need another pass rushing DE to free up Mack.

 The pressure generated by a good pass rush will cover up a weak secondary but a good secondary with a poor pass rush always fails.

It’s that same logic that got the Raiders to pass on all sorts of Hall of Fame talent in the 07 draft. Sure the tackle spots are problems but there aren’t any tackles worth taking at 10. I’d rather have better players at other positions than an inferior one at a position of need. 

Now it’s true the Raiders need another guy to rush the passer at DE but they also need help in the middle at DT and MLB. If they don’t get help there then teams will just run up the gut and slow the pass rush down. In this draft there are about 3-4 guys who the Raiders can pick at 10 who can help out. 

[Bitty 2.0]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

I disagree. Based even on my own evaluation, taking Miller or McGlinchey would too obviously turn down greater talent for a greater need -- and I like both Miller and McGlinchey. I strongly doubt either player are rated as highly as the defensive players available based on how draft reporters have communicated NFL team's views on this class. 

I'm usually pro drafting for need within reason, but either tackle would be too much of a reach for need -- especially when a competent tackle could be had in rounds two or three.

McGlinchey should be a above average LT but could be an all pro RT.   So there’s talent there there just not at a sexy position.

[Bitty 2.0]

6 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

This logic is ridiculous. Injuries are part of the game. You don't need to reach for OT out of fear of injury. Not when there are going to better options on the defensive side of the ball where the team has been historically weak.

Do the Raiders need to address OT, yes. Do they need to reach out of desperation, absolutely not. There are decent OT prospects rounds 2-4 to develop and they have some guys to develop. 

Not sure what they paid Cable, but you pay a coach like that to develop your talent so you don't have to be desperate drafting them.

Carr has the largest difference in passer ratings when kept clean (101.4) and when pressured (41.4), the 60-point difference the largest in the NFL among 37 quarterbacks with at least 150 dropbacks this season, per Pro Football Focus.

http://www.espn.com/blog/oakland-raiders/post/_/id/20476/why-is-raiders-derek-carr-struggling-so-mightily-against-pressure

[Rich7sena]

1 hour ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

 Even if it means a potential injury to  Derek Carr?

I reject the premise. Drafting McGlinchey or Miller in round 1 -- if we are to assume their value is correctly projected in the second half or round 1 to the top of round 2 -- over taking a tackle in rounds 2 or 3 significantly increases or decreases chance of injury for Derek Carr.

Drafting them would give the Raiders a clear future at the position and depth on the left side and a superior day one starter on the right side, but your ignoring how play calling and formations will play a part in the coaching staff's confidence on the perimeter.

Tackle is a clear need, and arguably the biggest position of need for the Raiders, but we need not create a prospect out of thin air or ignore taking a better player because of it.

[raiders4life]

2 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Carr has the largest difference in passer ratings when kept clean (101.4) and when pressured (41.4), the 60-point difference the largest in the NFL among 37 quarterbacks with at least 150 dropbacks this season, per Pro Football Focus.

http://www.espn.com/blog/oakland-raiders/post/_/id/20476/why-is-raiders-derek-carr-struggling-so-mightily-against-pressure

 

As always, stats like these can mean different things when looked at in different perspectives. Everyone who is an honest fan of Carr’s knows that the longer he holds onto the ball, the less likely he is to make a play. Sure, this can be seen as a huge detriment, but you have to ask yourself why this is. Is it as simple as his OL not being up to chops and don’t give him enough time? Possible, but remember, when he is on his game, playing in a system that benefits him, he gets rid of the ball faster than anyone else in the league. He is a tactician, not a scrambler, relies on his smarts more than his adaptability. Look back to his days at Fresno St. Why did he have such great production there? Was it because all of is OL were future NFL studs? No, it was because he sat back in shotgun, read the defense pre-snap, made an adjustment, and got rid of the ball fast. He isn’t a Plug-N-Play, will make any system work QB, he is one that needs solid structure around him and everyone must understand their part in the structure to make it work. Won’t go into the nitty gritty technicalities of this, as I myself am more of a big picture guy, but I hope you get the idea.

That all said, I personally think the stat you pointed out is a reflection of the entire system failing Carr, more than it is a reflection of Carr’s individual performance. The first two games of 2017 were arguably his best of the year, and according to PFF (surprise!) Carr had the fastest release time in the entire NFL in those two games. What this tells me, is that Downing was smart enough to create a system which Carr could thrive could thrive in, BUT! When the other teams figured it out, Downing had no counter punch. Confidence in the system was lost, things went down hill FAST.

https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2017/09/22/pff-raiders-qb-derek-carr-tops-nfl-in-snap-to-release-time/

[agarcia34]

If the Raiders trade with AZ or the Ravens they better get their second round pick just getting a 3 and 5 would be a let down and honestly wouldn’t even do it since the talent you will be passing on at 10.