Is the Steelers offense overrated?

[LaserFocus]

2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Ben has been one of the top QBs of his era.    Thats pretty obvious.    My point was he was never bonafide elite like the top 4 of his generation (Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers).   His inconsistencies in certain areas prevented him from being THAT good.

And while winning obviously matters, winning isnt a QB stat...its a team accomplishment.     Ben has a better career winning percentage than Drew Brees....and I dont think anyone in their right mind would even attempt to argue Ben has been a better QB than Brees.   

Winning is an all around team accomplishment, and while Ben has certainly been a key piece of the Steelers success over the years, he didnt carry a bunch of bad teams.   He has had a few average teams, but most of them have been in the good-great and even elite range.

Agree Ben isn't a GOAT candidate at QB, he's had the bad timing of playing at the same time as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in the AFC. Better than Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, and most others. He's just elite in other essential categories besides individual stats. Possibly the toughest QB in league history, I've never seen a Manning or Brady lead a comeback win with a broken nose and blood on the jersey. And winning will always be included when talking about the QB position, we'll never be able to divorce the objective of team sports with the most crucial position on the field. Manning and Brady haven't played on bad teams, either. I would remind everyone the 2008 Steelers had a mediocre running game, and bad offensive line, yet Roelishberger led them to a SB win, engineering one of greatest GW drives in SB history.

It hasn't been pretty, Big Ben isn't graceful the way other first ballot HOF QBs have been, it's just been extremely effective.   

[MSURacerDT55]

3 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Ben has been one of the top QBs of his era.    Thats pretty obvious.    My point was he was never bonafide elite like the top 4 of his generation (Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers).   His inconsistencies in certain areas prevented him from being THAT good.

And while winning obviously matters, winning isnt a QB stat...its a team accomplishment.     Ben has a better career winning percentage than Drew Brees....and I dont think anyone in their right mind would even attempt to argue Ben has been a better QB than Brees.   

Winning is an all around team accomplishment, and while Ben has certainly been a key piece of the Steelers success over the years, he didnt carry a bunch of bad teams.   He has had a few average teams, but most of them have been in the good-great and even elite range.

This may be the silliest argument ever, he doesn't deserve this type of treatment. This guy has two Super Bowl wins and the reason the teams were good-great and even elite was because of Ben, the only reason the Steelers became a part of the upper crust of the league is because of Ben, he was/is the engine that makes this thing go. This may be the single worst take on FF. "Key piece"???, and this is how you treat your HOF QB? Pathetic

 

When things go wrong, you don't look to anyone but Ben, that doesn't classify as just a "Key piece"

[Spartacus]

4 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

This may be the silliest argument ever, he doesn't deserve this type of treatment. This guy has two Super Bowl wins and the reason the teams were good-great and even elite was because of Ben, the only reason the Steelers became a part of the upper crust of the league is because of Ben, he was/is the engine that makes this thing go. This may be the single worst take on FF. "Key piece"???, and this is how you treat your HOF QB? Pathetic

 

When things go wrong, you don't look to anyone but Ben, that doesn't classify as just a "Key piece"

Not really, Steelers defense in 2005 was 3rd in ppg including giving up 17 ,18, 17, and 10 in the playoffs. 

In 2008 they were first in ppg. They gave up 24, 14, and 23 in the playoffs.

Ben may have put them over the top but both those teams were defensive juggernauts. 

The only other year they were in the Superbowl they were first in ppg as well. 

The reason those teams were good to great is defense. Ben put them over the top. I think your exagerating just as much as the poster saying he didn't contribute.

[MSURacerDT55]

3 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Not really, Steelers defense in 2005 was 3rd in ppg including giving up 17 ,18, 17, and 10 in the playoffs. 

In 2008 they were first in ppg. They gave up 24, 14, and 23 in the playoffs.

Ben may have put them over the top but both those teams were defensive juggernauts. 

The only other year they were in the Superbowl they were first in ppg as well. 

The reason those teams were good to great is defense. Ben put them over the top. I think your exagerating just as much as the poster saying he didn't contribute.

Why does there have to be a "but"?, why do you people have so much reservation in calling Ben great? This is very interesting....

 

Simple question, WHERE WOULD YOUR ORG BE WITHOUT BEN?

[Spartacus]

I think they would most likely have won 1 SB instead of 2 but that depends on who their QB was outside of Ben. Don't put me into the same boat as the people saying Ben is overrated that's is not what I am saying. He is a great QB. I would put him right under the elite tier of QBs. 

[43M]

15 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

This may be the silliest argument ever, he doesn't deserve this type of treatment. This guy has two Super Bowl wins and the reason the teams were good-great and even elite was because of Ben, the only reason the Steelers became a part of the upper crust of the league is because of Ben, he was/is the engine that makes this thing go. This may be the single worst take on FF. "Key piece"???, and this is how you treat your HOF QB? Pathetic

 

When things go wrong, you don't look to anyone but Ben, that doesn't classify as just a "Key piece"

Yes....saying that winning is a TEAM accomplishment and that Ben was never on the level of Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers is treating Ben poorly.     Lets just ignore that I said he was a great QB and one of the top QBs in his era.    No....lets just pretend I said he sucks and wasnt a big part of our success.

The only thing "pathetic" here is your laughable reaction to a perfectly reasonable assessment of Ben....an assessment Im willing to bet any educated and objective fan would largely agree with.

  

[CP3MVP]

On 4/19/2018 at 5:44 PM, biletnikoff said:

Never actually pans out? How do you over  rate constantly  making the playoffs and averaging  more than one SB every 10 years? 

 

What does this have to do with the Steelers overrated offense? And since when have the killer B era Steelers made the Super Bowl?

[Iamcanadian]

I think Roethlisberger is on the decline after so many injuries, so they are definitely a bit overrated now, but not when he was in his prime!

[SteelKing728]

If their offense is going to continue to be successful, they need to limit Bell's carries and give some to James Conner. Keep em fresh. 

[VigilantZombie]

4 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

I think Roethlisberger is on the decline after so many injuries, so they are definitely a bit overrated now, but not when he was in his prime!

He isnt on the decline, he is still a major part of their success. I think fan bases get envious of succrssful teams so they try to talk about how they're flawed. Pittsburgh isnt perfect but the best offense overall? Its at least arguable. Im not even saying "Best qb" or anything. Im saying best overall offensive roster.

[BleedTheClock]

15 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Yes....saying that winning is a TEAM accomplishment and that Ben was never on the level of Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers is treating Ben poorly.     Lets just ignore that I said he was a great QB and one of the top QBs in his era.    No....lets just pretend I said he sucks and wasnt a big part of our success.

The only thing "pathetic" here is your laughable reaction to a perfectly reasonable assessment of Ben....an assessment Im willing to bet any educated and objective fan would largely agree with.

I think you're both too far on each side of the spectrum tbh.

The Steelers would be screwed had they been stuck with a league average QB over the last 13 seasons. They would be a consistent 7-10 win squad, but wouldn't be in contention for championships I bet. Roethlisberger is far and away the team's most important player and has been every year he's been on the team except MAYBE when he was a rookie and they went to the SB.

But Ben is declining a bit and while never being the best QB in the NFL, I think he belongs in that same tier #1 with Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers/Manziel. He might not be BETTER than those guys, but he's an elite QB. Sure he's got talent around him, but I'm not going to dock the guy greatness points because his teammates were also great.

[August4th]

ben played some of his best ball in the last 2 months of the season but he was so bad to start the yr

not sure if he's declining or not lol he's no where near as mobile and lost a little of his arm strength... but he can still sling it with the best of them when the offense is clicking ..especially in home games ... I think ben has one or two more years of his typical play ..playing with a OC he doesn't hate should help

[43M]

1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

I think you're both too far on each side of the spectrum tbh.

The Steelers would be screwed had they been stuck with a league average QB over the last 13 seasons. They would be a consistent 7-10 win squad, but wouldn't be in contention for championships I bet. Roethlisberger is far and away the team's most important player and has been every year he's been on the team except MAYBE when he was a rookie and they went to the SB.

 

How am I far at the end of any spectrum?

I never said Ben wasnt the most important INDIVIDUAL player on the Steelers over the years   In fact, I completely agree with that.      All I did was claim that winning is a team accomplishment (which isnt arguable) and that its not like Ben played on terrible teams that he had to carry year after year.     He's been a great QB that was a integral part of the Steelers success over the years, but he played for one of the best organizations that, for the most part, maintained a level of talent that helped keep this team winning WITH Ben.
 

And sorry, but most fans wouldnt put Ben on par with Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers and especially Manziel.     They were all clearly better QBs.   Thats not a slight on Ben.....but you could argue all of them as top 5 QBs all time...while Ben is probably arguable as top 15-20.

Bottom line....I'm really struggling to understand how saying Ben isnt on the level of GOAT QBs and that winning is a team accomplishment is in any way disrespectful to Ben.  

[biletnikoff]

21 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

What does this have to do with the Steelers overrated offense? And since when have the killer B era Steelers made the Super Bowl?

Lol they've been in round 2 and conf. Championship  of playoffs last 2 years.= not  over rated. 

Again, the point is, don' worry about  it, they'l make it again, soon enough..they'e hardly ever not a top 6 afc team to begin with..that' always winning= not over rated. Pointless sporty sport talky talk, about nothing.Steelers rule, everyone else sucks deflated  balls. 

 

[TXsteeler]

10 hours ago, biletnikoff said:

Lol they've been in round 2 and conf. Championship  of playoffs last 2 years.= not  over rated. 

Again, the point is, don' worry about  it, they'l make it again, soon enough..they'e hardly ever not a top 6 afc team to begin with..that' always winning= not over rated. Pointless sporty sport talky talk, about nothing.Steelers rule, everyone else sucks deflated  balls. 

 

This is both some of the most sloppy and most blatant trolling I've seen out of you. You were up late drinking last night weren't you?