Matt Ryan and Falcons agree to contract extension first 30 million a year QB

[JAF-N72EX]

Here is a question for those who are against Ryan's contract.

What would be the better alternative solution? 

[FalconFan13]

2 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

And you're not wrong for thinking that either. It's the old adage, the game starts up front. 

Coaches mention this all the time as a focal point in pressers, interviews, books, etc. "We gotta get pressure"--"we gotta get better up front"--"we gotta give our QB a chance"--"we gotta contain on outside".

Thats all im saying bro and i'll stand by it everytime.   Ryan did afterall break the record for most reception Td's by a different player in 1 year with like 12 or 13.    He has proven he can play well with anyone as his receiving option and make them work when given time.   He turned Harry Douglas into a 1000+ yard receiver the year Julio and Roddy got injured.   Also 2 or 3 of Ryan's biggest games and most points scored during 2016 was when Julio was injured and not even in the games that week we score 40+ points both games.    I would consider him around the 4 to 7 level behind  Brady, Brees, and Rodgers on any given year.  With the chance of being the best Qb in the league like 2016 when he has a very good o-line. 

[43M]

3 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Here is a question for those who are against Ryan's contract.

What would be the better alternative solution? 

While I agree in general, I think thats whats becoming wrong with QB contracts.   

You have largely unproven QBs (like Garroppolo) getting huge contracts before proving much of anything, and its hiking up the prices of QBs who have actually proven their worth over numerous years.    The JG fanboys can claim all they want that he is the next big thing, but that doesnt mean he deserved the kind of money he got so soon.    Im not saying he wont live up to that contract.....Im saying that moronic contracts are driving up the prices on all QBs.

Someone asked the question not to long ago "Are QBs overvalued?"    They are obviously the most important INDIVIDUAL piece of a team, but we are getting to a point where they are getting overvalued.    Because....when does it end?   QB contracts are inflating faster than the salary cap is rising.  

[GSUeagles14]

13 hours ago, Broncofan said:

With that 4M extra saved we got Darian Stewart and Vance Walker without whom we likely don’t win the SB.  So many 1-score wins or less.  

Its fine to cite sample size to prevent drawing hard conclusions.   But if  the effect seen is dramatic it’s noteworhty and shouldn’t be dismissed, either.  So far we are at 0-fer.  

I actually agree it’s not an absolute.  There are ways to counter it.  It’s just undeniable that it makes the job a lot harder.  So far no one has overcome it.  Someone eventually will.   Doesn’t mean it’s not a big barrier.  

you had 5 mil in room that year, so that isnt true. as i already mentioned, after you take out the greatest qb of all time and teh greatest coach of all time on the same team, we have like a sample size of 6. If the way to truly buiold great teams was to avoid paying huge QB salaries, we wouldnt see rodgers, roethlisberger, ryan, etc deep in the playoffs so often.

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said:

you had 5 mil in room that year, so that isnt true. as i already mentioned, after you take out the greatest qb of all time and teh greatest coach of all time on the same team, we have like a sample size of 6. If the way to truly buiold great teams was to avoid paying huge QB salaries, we wouldnt see rodgers, roethlisberger, ryan, etc deep in the playoffs so often.

We used 4M of that 5M to pay Peyton the 4M bonuses to win the AFCG & SB - brilliant maneuvering of the cap because it didn't actually cost us anything, but it then allowed Elway to not mortgage the future either, unless we went deep - we didn't win those 2 last games, no future cap hit - so it was a no-lose restructure.  And if you want to be completely precise, then we have to add Evan Mathis - who we added in TC - another 3M.    Mathis is another key piece we can't win without.  Whether you want to argue Peyton's 4M cap hit going to 2015 or 2016, the point remains without it, we don't get the guys we needed to win SB50.   

Include that 4M and it's now at 14.4 - still nowhere near the 17's we're now seeing for the top contract.  Again, having a higher % doesn't make it impossible - but it's just that much harder.   And let's be clear - Peyton's % was 12.1 with the 2015 cut (that really just was shuffled to 2016 with the bonus, but if we didn't win the AFCG or better, was a cut).    

[GSUeagles14]

42 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

We used 4M of that 5M to pay Peyton the 4M bonuses to win the AFCG & SB - brilliant maneuvering of the cap because it didn't actually cost us anything, but it then allowed Elway to not mortgage the future either, unless we went deep - we didn't win those 2 last games, no future cap hit - so it was a no-lose restructure.  And if you want to be completely precise, then we have to add Evan Mathis - who we added in TC - another 3M.    Mathis is another key piece we can't win without.  Whether you want to argue Peyton's 4M cap hit going to 2015 or 2016, the point remains without it, we don't get the guys we needed to win SB50.   

Include that 4M and it's now at 14.4 - still nowhere near the 17's we're now seeing for the top contract.  Again, having a higher % doesn't make it impossible - but it's just that much harder.   And let's be clear - Peyton's % was 12.1 with the 2015 cut (that really just was shuffled to 2016 with the bonus, but if we didn't win the AFCG or better, was a cut).    

mathis was included in that 5 million. and wheres the cutoff to where you can compete? 14.5 is ok but 16.5 isnt? Can you let me know where the line is?

 

Furthermore, Ryans cap hit this year is like 10% of the cap. Even if the cap stays the same next year, his cap hit is like 12.5% of it and as we all know the cap is projected to rise over the next few years.

[Broncofan]

42 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

mathis was included in that 5 million. and wheres the cutoff to where you can compete? 14.5 is ok but 16.5 isnt? Can you let me know where the line is?

 

Furthermore, Ryans cap hit this year is like 10% of the cap. Even if the cap stays the same next year, his cap hit is like 12.5% of it and as we all know the cap is projected to rise over the next few years.

Mathis, Stewart and Walker were key FA signings / TC signings that totaled just under 7M.   We don’t get that without clearing more space - which is what Manning’s cut enabled.   Manning doesn’t agree to the 4M cut we don’t create the cash flow to enable pursuit at that time.   Keep in mind we had 800k credited to us for Ward and Wolfe suspensions so we only had 4M of extra operating capital. 

And keep in mind that the now 2016 4M leftover number is not how teams operate - teams carry rollover in case they need to trade / sign a guy in Aug/Sept/Oct.   Only 2 teams were left with less than 1M rollover after 2015.   Only 6 with less than 2M.    It’s smart practice for contenders to give themselves options.     So they won’t burn all their rollover in FA.  If they are unlucky they burn it late in TC or early in the season.   So Manning’s cut was crucial in giving Elway the freedom to make the difference making moves. 

We don’t win the SB without those 3.   It’s not a question.   Which means we didn’t have enough to get our starting G or our starting Pro Bowl S or the 3rd DE in our DL rotation that kept Wolfe / Jackson fresh - or started the games Wolfe missed on 4-game suspension.    

Now as to your new point about the contract extension - Ryan’s first 2 years keep the percentage reasonable.  No argument.  Years 3-6?   Brutal range.   That’s always the issue with backloading deals.    Remember though I don’t have an objection to the extension in a vacuum.  

But that’s a separate point from the one premise I’ve been stating with you - that the high % seen with top QB contracts really makes it difficult to win the SB.   The Manning example shows this when you have the fill picture.   Impossible, no.   But it requires threading the needle with little to no margin for error.  So far no one has been able to do it.   Someone eventually will - it’s just undeniable that it makes the job incredibly difficult.  It’s a big reason why the rookie contract QB is the Holy Grail. 

 

 

[sp6488]

On 5/3/2018 at 4:04 PM, TitanLegend said:

I wonder when a QB not named Tom Brady is actually going to take less money to help their team.

I'm not entirely sure how you can be a competitor at this level and want to take up this much of your team's cap space and prevent them from improving the team in other areas. Especially when you're a player that has already made over 100 million in their career like Ryan has. I just don't get it. Guess I never will.

Maybe it's been mentioned, but I don't quite understand this sentiment.  We can certainly applaud someone taking less, but I don't quite get the idea that someone should take less than their market value so that... other guys can get paid their full market value.

[sp6488]

On 5/3/2018 at 5:02 PM, wackywabbit said:

QB percentage of cap is still way less than their impact on the game. 

30M per is going to be like 16% of the cap. But of course, people are going to overreact because they don't adjust properly for inflation when looking at these numbers. 

Kind of ridiculous that he's making so much more than Unitas or Tarkenton IMO.

[TitanLegend]

On 5/3/2018 at 4:35 PM, BroncoSojia said:

This is nonsense. NFL players should get as much money as they can, especially since teams won't hesitate to cut players who under preform on a contract or won't give a raise when a player out preforms one. 

All talk of "loyalty" or "taking one for the team" falls on the player, never the FO. It's a one way street. BTW, the amount of money he's made in the past is irrelevant.

It has nothing to do with loyalty to the team itself, it has to do with wanting to win a championship as a competitor at the highest level. When does that want surpass the seeming need to make $30 million a year as opposed to 15 or 20? I'm not saying a player should take less money to help out the team itself. I'm saying do it because you want to win a superbowl and letting your team have more cap space gives you a higher probability of signing impact players, thus making your quest for a championship easier.

 

On 5/4/2018 at 2:55 PM, showtime said:

Probably when they have a wife that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

23 hours ago, RuskieTitan said:

I'll give you the answer - when the QBs wife makes more than the top end of these mega deals, then that QB can be like Brady and take less money.

Otherwise, get that paper to establish your bloodline long term, because 50 years from now no one will give a damn whether you took less to have a shot at a championship that never came to fruition, but your family legacy and future generations upon generations can live in the wealth that you establish.

Brady has made $200 million in his career just in his NFL contracts, not even counting his sponsorships. He doesn't need his wife's money. His wife could leave him tomorrow and take everything she ever personally earned and it wouldn't impact him or his children(or his grandchildren, or great grandchildren, or great great great great grandchildren in even the slightest way, assuming none of them are complete idiots).

[RuskieTitan]

1 hour ago, TitanLegend said:

Brady has made $200 million in his career just in his NFL contracts, not even counting his sponsorships. He doesn't need his wife's money. His wife could leave him tomorrow and take everything she ever personally earned and it wouldn't impact him or his children(or his grandchildren, or great grandchildren, or great great great great grandchildren in even the slightest way, assuming none of them are complete idiots).

Okay. How many other quarterbacks have earned that much? In his case, he's had skill and production result in a long and successful career. He can probably afford to do a paycut after being in the NFL for 15+ years.

End of the day, taking less to give yourself maybe a better chance won't count for **** if you don't win a Super Bowl, and even if you do, it'll be nothing more than a footnote when looking back.

[showtime]

7 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

Brady has made $200 million in his career just in his NFL contracts, not even counting his sponsorships. He doesn't need his wife's money. His wife could leave him tomorrow and take everything she ever personally earned and it wouldn't impact him or his children(or his grandchildren, or great grandchildren, or great great great great grandchildren in even the slightest way, assuming none of them are complete idiots).

I'm not saying that Brady needs his wife's money.  Regardless of that, he is married to a woman that has roughly double his net worth.  He could play for the Patriots and have made no money at all (over the past 18 years) and his family could live the same exact lifestyle they live right now.  That's pretty insane and that's something that damn near no other pro athlete has.

[Ryan_W]

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎03 at 4:30 PM, diamondbull424 said:

I would’ve traded him for a top 3 pick. 

I'd trade him for that #1 pick that got Luck

I think my trade request would be denied

[diamondbull424]

On 5/5/2018 at 1:15 AM, JustAnotherFan said:

Here is a question for those who are against Ryan's contract.

What would be the better alternative solution? 

Pay league minimum to a quarterback who spent the night at a Holiday Inn express last night.?

[GSUeagles14]

22 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Mathis, Stewart and Walker were key FA signings / TC signings that totaled just under 7M.   We don’t get that without clearing more space - which is what Manning’s cut enabled.   Manning doesn’t agree to the 4M cut we don’t create the cash flow to enable pursuit at that time.   Keep in mind we had 800k credited to us for Ward and Wolfe suspensions so we only had 4M of extra operating capital. 

And keep in mind that the now 2016 4M leftover number is not how teams operate - teams carry rollover in case they need to trade / sign a guy in Aug/Sept/Oct.   Only 2 teams were left with less than 1M rollover after 2015.   Only 6 with less than 2M.    It’s smart practice for contenders to give themselves options.     So they won’t burn all their rollover in FA.  If they are unlucky they burn it late in TC or early in the season.   So Manning’s cut was crucial in giving Elway the freedom to make the difference making moves. 

We don’t win the SB without those 3.   It’s not a question.   Which means we didn’t have enough to get our starting G or our starting Pro Bowl S or the 3rd DE in our DL rotation that kept Wolfe / Jackson fresh - or started the games Wolfe missed on 4-game suspension.    

Now as to your new point about the contract extension - Ryan’s first 2 years keep the percentage reasonable.  No argument.  Years 3-6?   Brutal range.   That’s always the issue with backloading deals.    Remember though I don’t have an objection to the extension in a vacuum.  

But that’s a separate point from the one premise I’ve been stating with you - that the high % seen with top QB contracts really makes it difficult to win the SB.   The Manning example shows this when you have the fill picture.   Impossible, no.   But it requires threading the needle with little to no margin for error.  So far no one has been able to do it.   Someone eventually will - it’s just undeniable that it makes the job incredibly difficult.  It’s a big reason why the rookie contract QB is the Holy Grail. 

 

 

were moving away from teh main point here as if they really wanted to sign guys there were either ways to free money up, but spotrac has been pretty reliable and they say you had 5 mil including the mathis signing.

 

Amd you didnt answer my question, where is the line for what is "brutal" and what isnt? No one know what the cap will be in two years, in the last 5 years it has grown between 6-8%/year, that puts the cap between 198-205 in 2020. Obviously thats just projections but Ryans % then would be more like 15-15.5%. Again, wheres the line?