Small Town Values Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 SB... /Thread Using the other logic is like saying not making the playoffs is better than losing in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Marc MacGyver said: SB... /Thread Using the other logic is like saying not making the playoffs is better than losing in the playoffs. It's better to go 0-16 than to win a few games and think you have a shot at the playoffs and fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ6 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Marc MacGyver said: SB... /Thread Using the other logic is like saying not making the playoffs is better than losing in the playoffs. Higher draft pick >> For example Atlanta in 2014 played Carolina in week 17 for a playoff spot. The team wasn't very good and wasn't going to win the Superbowl even if they got into the playoffs. By losing that game it was the difference of drafting at 8 compared to 22+ if they won. They were able to walk away with Vic Beasley who filled a gigantic need. Not making the playoffs was so much more benefical for the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 hours ago, jarren said: Higher draft pick >> For example Atlanta in 2014 played Carolina in week 17 for a playoff spot. The team wasn't very good and wasn't going to win the Superbowl even if they got into the playoffs. By losing that game it was the difference of drafting at 8 compared to 22+ if they won. They were able to walk away with Vic Beasley who filled a gigantic need. Not making the playoffs was so much more benefical for the franchise. Sometimes if you're bad you want to be REALLY bad too. Bears were one pickbaway from both Aaron Donald and Leonard Williams. Ugh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucketheadsdad Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I'm a Browns fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Being well experienced in this; I found the superbowl losses hardest to take. More so the Giants' ones, because I felt the Eagles were simply a better team. The playoff losses are tough, but I'm more of the opinion that "at least it wasn't the big one". If you're not good enough to get to the big game, then you probably shouldn't be there anyway. Rebuild and go again. Superbowl losses are the classic "so close, yet so far". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveTheVikings Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Getting to the superbowl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not getting to the superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 On 5/28/2018 at 5:30 PM, Bucketheadsdad said: I'm a Browns fan. I really hope Baker is good and the Browns finally turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Yeah, those Raptors really pulled a fast one on LeBron by not losing in the finals this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 hours ago, SkippyX said: Yeah, those Raptors really pulled a fast one on LeBron by not losing in the finals this year. Well yeah. Not making the finals>>>>>>>>Not gaining any Finals experience at all. Not becoming EC champs. And living with "what if" for the rest of your life when there are no guarantees that you will ever get there again because............bad logic of being afraid of failure. On 5/28/2018 at 12:09 PM, jarren said: Higher draft pick >> For example Atlanta in 2014 played Carolina in week 17 for a playoff spot. The team wasn't very good and wasn't going to win the Superbowl even if they got into the playoffs. By losing that game it was the difference of drafting at 8 compared to 22+ if they won. They were able to walk away with Vic Beasley who filled a gigantic need. Not making the playoffs was so much more benefical for the franchise. Let's put hindsight aside for a second. So at the time you were happy to lose to a division rival who knocked you out of the playoff contention and in turn get that spot themselves? Sorry but I don't believe that for one second. I also don't entirely get or understand, nor do I agree with, the weak mindset of those who say "we should tank the rest of the season to get a better draft pick" either. For one, there are still no guarantees with those "extra" draft picks. Two, my Bears have not been competitive for years now and although over time you do get a little numb to losing, as I have, I still hate to see to it every single week and year after year. But I would NEVER wish a loss on them, at all, because I'm a strong competitor in anything and everything I do and/or associated with in any way, shape or form and always have been. True story. I played on all of my schools basketball teams from 4th-9th grade and I still remember showing up to a game where I knew a blowout was inevitable. Keep in mind, back then, alot of schools were much more separated in urban areas than they are now. You went to one school from K-6, another for junior high for 7th and 8th and then high-school for 9-12. Anyhow, in 6th grade we were set to play a team who were illegally playing high school kids on their team (some were seriously dunking) and so ofcourse it was found out about and it was determined that they could keep playing but all of their games on record would be immediately forfeited. Knowing all of this, most of our team didn't even show up because "they didn't wanna get embarrassed in the largest gym in the division". Only 5 of us, exactly, showed up. Just enough to play the game without any rest and we did get beat. Badly, 89-9. Because to us, it wasn't about winning or losing that ONE game. It was about the love for the game, being competitive and learning from it - win or lose. Point is, THIS is the same competitive mindset that ANY sports player has. Even more-so with professionals because this is their career and ultimately their lives and not just for sport. Suggesting that they would rather lose ANY game(playoffs or otherwise) rather than not play it at all is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I feel like the biggest disconnect here between opinions among this particular topic is that we're seeing opinions from people that could be put into 3 different groups. 1) Fans who are looking at it from only a fans point of view based their favorite teams. 2) Fans who are looking at it from a professional players and competitive point of view. 3) Fans who are trying to look at it from both points but may also be having a hard time balancing those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ6 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 48 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Well yeah. Not making the finals>>>>>>>>Not gaining any Finals experience at all. Not becoming EC champs. And living with "what if" for the rest of your life when there are no guarantees that you will ever get there again because............bad logic of being afraid of failure. Let's put hindsight aside for a second. So at the time you were happy to lose to a division rival who knocked you out of the playoff contention and in turn get that spot themselves? Sorry but I don't believe that for one second. I also don't entirely get or understand, nor do I agree with, the weak mindset of those who say "we should tank the rest of the season to get a better draft pick" either. For one, there are still no guarantees with those "extra" draft picks. Two, my Bears have not been competitive for years now and although over time you do get a little numb to losing, as I have, I still hate to see to it every single week and year after year. But I would NEVER wish a loss on them, at all, because I'm a strong competitor in anything and everything I do and/or associated with in any way, shape or form and always have been. True story. I played on all of my schools basketball teams from 4th-9th grade and I still remember showing up to a game where I knew a blowout was inevitable. Keep in mind, back then, alot of schools were much more separated in urban areas than they are now. You went to one school from K-6, another for junior high for 7th and 8th and then high-school for 9-12. Anyhow, in 6th grade we were set to play a team who were illegally playing high school kids on their team (some were seriously dunking) and so ofcourse it was found out about and it was determined that they could keep playing but all of their games on record would be immediately forfeited. Knowing all of this, most of our team didn't even show up because "they didn't wanna get embarrassed in the largest gym in the division". Only 5 of us, exactly, showed up. Just enough to play the game without any rest and we did get beat. Badly, 89-9. Because to us, it wasn't about winning or losing that ONE game. It was about the love for the game, being competitive and learning from it - win or lose. Point is, THIS is the same competitive mindset that ANY sports player has. Even more-so with professionals because this is their career and ultimately their lives and not just for sport. Suggesting that they would rather lose ANY game(playoffs or otherwise) rather than not play it at all is ridiculous. Yes I wanted them to lose the game because I knew with near certainty that we wouldn't win a playoff game and I wanted Mike Smith fired. That team wasn't good and needed alot of help. If we win that game we probably keep Mike Smith which means no DQ. Which would have been a travesty and horrible for the franchise. As for the rest of your post. Tanking is extremely smart with how the draft is set up across sports. There's two teams who've really committed to intentionally tanking in sports over the last 5 years. Those teams are the Philadelphia 76ers and Toronto Maple Leafs. Both those teams have arguably the best futures in their respective sports because of it. You could argue the Browns have tanked intentionally the last couple years and they're now loaded with young talent. Whats the benefit on finishing 5th-15th compared to last? Some BS moral victory? When your leauge rewards you with finishing last you would be smart to capitalize on it. Especially in the NFL where its almost a must to have a top flight QB to win and practically the only way you acquire them is through the draft where the good ones almost always go extremley high. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't want the players on my team to throw the game. But as a fan who has zero control on the game I always want whats best for the franchise and if that means an L than so be it. Tldr: If your team isn't good then TANK it's SMART!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 58 minutes ago, jarren said: Yes I wanted them to lose the game because I knew with near certainty that we wouldn't win a playoff game and I wanted Mike Smith fired. That team wasn't good and needed alot of help. To me, that's not a true fan then. No true fan ever wants to see their team lose. No matter the circumstances. 58 minutes ago, jarren said: Tanking is extremely smart when the draft is set up how it is. The Browns have had a top 10 pick 7 times in the last 15 years and what as it got them? Again, draft picks are not guaranteed. 58 minutes ago, jarren said: You could argue the Browns have tanked intentionally the last couple years and they're now loaded with young talent. This is for a different discussion, entirely. edit: becuase no, I don't think the Browns have been tanking. They have just been bad teams with a lack of talent against much better teams(I.e. division). edit 2: Just to be clear, I hate using the Browns as an example in the same way that I hate when others use the Patriots as an example as comparison. but I only did so because you had brought them up. 58 minutes ago, jarren said: Whats the benefit on finishing 5th-15th compared to last? Some BS moral victory? No. It's not some BS moral victory. As a player, you're still gaining experience. Win or lose. You hear players all of the time talking about "playoff" or "Superbowl" experience because those are different animals compared to the regular season. 58 minutes ago, jarren said: As for competitive mindset. As a player playing I agree. I always had that mindset on the field. But as a fan who has no control over the game I always want the best thing for the franchise and if that means an L than so be it. Tldr: If your team isn't good then TANK!!! This part goes back to my post following my response to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Superbowl for sure. It seems more fraudulent and purposeless to lose earlier. It's like the Final Four in college basketball, once you get there you are kinda validated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ6 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 51 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: To me, that's not a true fan then. No true fan ever wants to see their team lose. No matter the circumstances. Lol I'm a Falcons fan. Don't try to tell me about being a real fan. You're telling me you wouldn't want your team to lose if its the last game of the year, loser gets the 1st overall pick and a generational QB talent in entering the draft? Sure bud. The Browns have had a top 10 pick 7 times in the last 15 years and what as it got them? Again, draft picks are not guaranteed. No one is saying they're. But the higher you pick the better chance you have at landing top flight young talent. Quote This is for a different discussion, entirely. edit: becuase no, I don't think the Browns have been tanking. They have just been bad teams with a lack of talent against much better teams(I.e. division). Won't argue here. But the point still stands. The Maple Leafs and 76ers still show how smart tanking is when you're fully committed. No. It's not some BS moral victory. As a player, you're still gaining experience. Win or lose. You hear players all of the time talking about "playoff" or "Superbowl" experience because those are different animals compared to the regular season. Sure playoff experience is great. But if you have a vet team on the downswing or a team lacking talent like the Falcons in 2014 then give me the higher pick over "experience" anyday of the week. This part goes back to my post following my response to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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