ET80 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Ok... gather round, children. Time for some learnin'. 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: I feel sad that you worked in the banking industry and think this is a real thing It's how I know the situation is completely plausable. There are maybe 1,000 people who understand US Banking regulations better than me, specific to laws and regulations surrounding the movement and transfer of money. You're not one of them. Here's a quick exerpt from WalletHub: https://wallethub.com/edu/sa/joint-bank-account/14303/#:~:text=Equal Ownership%3A Any owner can,may be reported to ChexSystems. Pay attention to the following: Equal Ownership: Any owner can draw or deposit funds without the involvement or consent of the other owners. So, we've established that with a joint account, anyone who is an authorized signer can take the money with no recourse from the other party.. Need more? I got it... let's check the T&C's (terms and conditions) of Bank of America: Some Basic Terms for Joint Accounts If more than one person’s name appears in the title of an account without a fiduciary, beneficiary or other designation, then the account is a joint account. All persons whose names appear on the account are co-owners of the account, regardless of whose money is deposited in the account. Each co-owner acts as the agent of each other co-owner. Each co-owner authorizes each other co-owner to operate the account without the consent or approval of any other co-owner. We may act and rely on the instructions of one co-owner without liability to any other co-owner. So as examples, one co-owner may without the consent or approval of the others: • add additional persons as co-owners; • deposit funds and withdraw or transfer part or all of the funds in the account So - from a Banking regulation perspective - there is no recourse for Person A if Person B bleeds the account and runs. Anywhere, anytime at all. It's spelled out in black and white the day you open the account, and if you run up to the bank with your lawyers and screaming "My spouse stole my money!" the bank is simply going to hand you a copy of the T&C's you signed off on and let you on your way. 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: Name 15 people who have upended their lives and fled the country to avoid splitting half their money. This isn't exactly something you're going to Google and find hits on (because it's not exactly a felony to withdraw money from a joint account you have signing authority on - nobody is breaking news on that) and you're not exactly running in circles where people have extended families overseas to run to, so this is a moot point. But... I'm a giving sort of person, so: https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/my-husband-stole-all-the-money-from-our-joint-acco-3136973.html https://www.quora.com/My-money-in-a-joint-account-was-taken-without-my-permission-I-called-her-thief-and-criminal-in-public-She-sued-me-for-oral-defamation-Is-it-fair https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-i-withdraw-money-from-a-joint-bacnk-account-can-629461.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-two-people-have-a-joint-checking-account--can-o-616654.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/is-taking-your-money-from-a-joint-account-stealing-2292004.html That's five. I can grab 10 more if you'd like. 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: Much less the fact that most married couples have kids and that would be a federal crime to take them. I feel like this was glossed over ...in what universe do most married couples have kids!? https://www.statista.com/statistics/242074/percentages-of-us-family-households-with-children-by-type/ Hell, it was 56% in 1970. It's only gone down since then. 60% of married couples don't have kids... Remember that time I said you're looking at the world through an incredibly small keyhole? Yeah, this sort of supports that theory...but let's stick a pin in this. 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: PS - its illegal to enter Canada with a felony. Withdrawing money from your own account is now illegal? Well, I guess I'm boned, I pulled out a $20 to buy a Sonic breakfast burrito.... 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: Which is what you would be charged with for stealing a bank account and kidnapping your kids. Welp, we covered the bank account. And the kids. So guess we got nothing on this one. 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: Its explained in the divorce paperwork that is served. Assuming you filed the paperwork before said account withdrawal was made, right? Because all is fair in love and war, and waiting for paperwork to cut and run is something someone who is going to cut and run would totally do... 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: I call BS. "Incredibly Common" - bull. There is nothing statistically that will validate you. I dare you to try. I've covered about 33% of your 15 examples - mostly because I'm not interested in looking up another 10 instances. We can get that 66% if you'd like... 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: There is absolutely nothing that backs up your opinion @ET80. That is 100% bullpoop. Your Google is broken. Hit up Sundar Pichai, he might be able to help. Or... maybe I can. https://lenpenzo.com/blog/id17245-true-story-how-to-cope-when-your-spouse-skips-out-with-all-the-cash-2.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/my-husband-took-all-of-our-money-out-of-our-joint--3160143.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/married--husband-withdraws-money-from-joint-accoun-593554.html https://www.quora.com/My-husband-stole-my-money-from-my-bank-account-and-closed-it-Is-he-liable https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-i-withdraw-money-from-a-joint-bacnk-account-can-629461.html That's 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, ET80 said: Ok... gather round, children. Time for some learnin'. It's how I know the situation is completely plausable. There are maybe 1,000 people who understand US Banking regulations better than me, specific to laws and regulations surrounding the movement and transfer of money. You're not one of them. Here's a quick exerpt from WalletHub: https://wallethub.com/edu/sa/joint-bank-account/14303/#:~:text=Equal Ownership%3A Any owner can,may be reported to ChexSystems. Pay attention to the following: Equal Ownership: Any owner can draw or deposit funds without the involvement or consent of the other owners. So, we've established that with a joint account, anyone who is an authorized signer can take the money with no recourse from the other party.. Need more? I got it... let's check the T&C's (terms and conditions) of Bank of America: Some Basic Terms for Joint Accounts If more than one person’s name appears in the title of an account without a fiduciary, beneficiary or other designation, then the account is a joint account. All persons whose names appear on the account are co-owners of the account, regardless of whose money is deposited in the account. Each co-owner acts as the agent of each other co-owner. Each co-owner authorizes each other co-owner to operate the account without the consent or approval of any other co-owner. We may act and rely on the instructions of one co-owner without liability to any other co-owner. So as examples, one co-owner may without the consent or approval of the others: • add additional persons as co-owners; • deposit funds and withdraw or transfer part or all of the funds in the account So - from a Banking regulation perspective - there is no recourse for Person A if Person B bleeds the account and runs. Anywhere, anytime at all. It's spelled out in black and white the day you open the account, and if you run up to the bank with your lawyers and screaming "My spouse stole my money!" the bank is simply going to hand you a copy of the T&C's you signed off on and let you on your way. This isn't exactly something you're going to Google and find hits on (because it's not exactly a felony to withdraw money from a joint account you have signing authority on - nobody is breaking news on that) and you're not exactly running in circles where people have extended families overseas to run to, so this is a moot point. But... I'm a giving sort of person, so: https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/my-husband-stole-all-the-money-from-our-joint-acco-3136973.html https://www.quora.com/My-money-in-a-joint-account-was-taken-without-my-permission-I-called-her-thief-and-criminal-in-public-She-sued-me-for-oral-defamation-Is-it-fair https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-i-withdraw-money-from-a-joint-bacnk-account-can-629461.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-two-people-have-a-joint-checking-account--can-o-616654.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/is-taking-your-money-from-a-joint-account-stealing-2292004.html That's five. I can grab 10 more if you'd like. I feel like this was glossed over ...in what universe do most married couples have kids!? https://www.statista.com/statistics/242074/percentages-of-us-family-households-with-children-by-type/ Hell, it was 56% in 1970. It's only gone down since then. 60% of married couples don't have kids... Remember that time I said you're looking at the world through an incredibly small keyhole? Yeah, this sort of supports that theory...but let's stick a pin in this. Withdrawing money from your own account is now illegal? Well, I guess I'm boned, I pulled out a $20 to buy a Sonic breakfast burrito.... Welp, we covered the bank account. And the kids. So guess we got nothing on this one. Assuming you filed the paperwork before said account withdrawal was made, right? Because all is fair in love and war, and waiting for paperwork to cut and run is something someone who is going to cut and run would totally do... I've covered about 33% of your 15 examples - mostly because I'm not interested in looking up another 10 instances. We can get that 66% if you'd like... Your Google is broken. Hit up Sundar Pichai, he might be able to help. Or... maybe I can. https://lenpenzo.com/blog/id17245-true-story-how-to-cope-when-your-spouse-skips-out-with-all-the-cash-2.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/my-husband-took-all-of-our-money-out-of-our-joint--3160143.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/married--husband-withdraws-money-from-joint-accoun-593554.html https://www.quora.com/My-husband-stole-my-money-from-my-bank-account-and-closed-it-Is-he-liable https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-i-withdraw-money-from-a-joint-bacnk-account-can-629461.html That's 10. You have somehow completely missed every single point. I know you are smart enough to get them, so I have to assume you are being purposely obtuse. The idea that people leave America because they stole some money is stupid. You finding 10 people doesnt matter, there are 9 divorces every 2 minutes and those people dont move to a 3rd world country. I understand how banks work. You are being stupid by ignoring how laws work. Stop pretending to be dumb. 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AFlaccoSeagulls Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 You know on second thought maybe I'll just break up with my fiancee and keep all of my money... Thanks @ET80! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Yeah we've kind of talked about this off and on, but with marriage around the corner it's getting more and more real. Oh I'm definitely having doubts, and I conveyed that to her, I just wanted to know if my doubts are reasonable, or if I'm a selfish prick, basically I give her my CC all the time if she wants to go to the store, and she makes "enough" to where if she needs something she can get it. I do understand that our current situation could be seen to her as her having no "freedom", but she buys stuff all the time with her CC, she just can't pay it off, and to ME that's a problem and if our money is joined, I don't want our joint checking/savings being used to fund her credit card purchases (and likewise, I wouldn't want that money funding mine either). (Sorry for not reading the last 4 pages, if I missed something important well...sucks to suck?) My wife and I have joint everything, and whatever happens, happen. it is working so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 2 hours ago, theJ said: Oh i totally agree. My wife and I keep small side accounts for stuff like this too. Because while we need to agree on big picture stuff, i don't want to ask her if i can spend $50 on a tool, and i don't want her asking me every time she wants to buy a new purse. We just cap those accounts so the spending can't touch our total net worth. In the end, it's a marriage, but the people in a marriage are still individuals and need some space to exercise that individually. So yeah, i agree. The question for every couple that sets up their finances like this is: what do you cap that discretionary spending at? I've seen some couples only combine for bills, and the rest is separate (so it's hundreds or thousands/month they can spend discretionary). Others keep it much smaller, like $50-100/mo into that separate account. We just buy whatever we want, and dicuss lareger purchasing luckily we dont really spend on too much, other than vacations which we do together anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You have somehow completely missed every single point No, I haven't. In fact, I recall what started this discussion: 2 hours ago, Matts4313 said: None of this is true. First off all, the judge will provide recourse if you empty an account. What recourse is there if a person who is legally authorized to take the money takes the money? I have plainly laid that out as the tenant of a joint account, right? Legally, nothing wrong has happened if my wife goes to Chase, gets a Cashier's Check for $6.31 and goes to Mexico, Canada, India, Mars - doesn't matter in the least, NO CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED. I can get the T&C's of Chase, Wells Fargo, Citi... Tell me which one, the language on this is pretty consistent. 10 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: The idea that people leave America because they stole some money is stupid. But it happens more often than you think. 10 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You finding 10 people doesnt matter, there are 9 divorces every 2 minutes and those people dont move to a 3rd world country Why does it have to be a 3rd world country? Seriously, you're aware that India is a G20 country and that China has a bigger economy than the US, right? Sweden has a better quality of life than the US, why are you assuming someone is running to South Sudan or Somalia? Can you give me a percentage of how many of those nine divorces ended without somebody skimming or stealing/hiding assets? Probably not. Neither can I, but I didn't introduce this stat to the discussion. 12 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I understand how banks work Then why is this a difficult concept for you? What's the recourse on a joint account when a joint user drains it and goes... literally anywhere that is not where you are? 13 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You are being stupid by ignoring how laws work. Stop pretending to be dumb. I have additional T&C's, banking regulations, SWIFT laws and wire code I can cite as my evidence. I have yet to see a counter to my original reference. Feel free to enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 23 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: You know on second thought maybe I'll just break up with my fiancee and keep all of my money... Thanks @ET80! I aim to please. I'll come up with a more profound response later. 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, ET80 said: I aim to please. I'll come up with a more profound response later. 😁 Way to go, now you’re responsible for as many failed marriages as Matts. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 When my parents got divorced, my mom found evidence that my dad tried to give 100,000 dollars to his brother to hide it from her in the divorce. At the time, I thought my dad was some evil ***hole and I actually stopped talking to him for a few years over how things went during and after the divorce, but now I totally get it. I would never, ever, ever, ever get married. Monogamy I am perfectly okay with maybe one day, but marriage is a hard no for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Unless she had more money than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 But let’s be realistic, if anyone would ever want to marry me it would be for my money. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 44 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I understand how banks work. You are being stupid by ignoring how laws work. Stop pretending to be dumb. fatal flaw here, your wife could drain the bank account BEFORE filing for divorce. that precious judge order to not touch any joint money, hasnt happened yet. I could go on but you are teetering into the territory of posters that arent worth my time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, N4L said: I could go on but you are teetering into the territory of posters that aren't worth my time Q: What's the past tense of teetering ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Anyone ever go looking through Webby's post history to see who was the latest to land on his **** list? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Also, @ET80, how do warnings work? Are they tracked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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