2019 Draft Discussion

[Brat&Beer]

If Devin White is available, he should be the pick. Explosive with no real weaknesses. People looking for pass rush should keep in mind that Pettine has always stressed inside pressure when rushing the passer. White can do that. Devin Bush would probably be available at 30, or maybe even 44. 

[pacman5252]

4 hours ago, n8ghee said:

I just watched a bunch of individual game tape...here are some of my initial thoughts while quickly watching.

 

Oliver-doesn’t have much against big time competition, that being said. I’d take him at 12, no questions asked. Greats power in his hands, with a super fast first step.

Sweat- hardly ever shows up on tape. He does have elite athleticism, but I don’t think his tape warrants a 1st round pick, let alone pick 12. Plays soft as butter.

Polite- plays a bit timid in non pass rushing situations, altho, in pass rushing situations...he has a fantastic first step, feet, and body control. High ceiling if he figures out the run game, should have success as a pass rusher soon. Based off tape, worthy of a 1st round pick to me.

Gary- solid feet and punch, I could see him being an above average defender against the run and pass. I like his floor compared to the other edge guys, worthy of a 1st round pick.

Burns- has some real horrible tape, especially against Bama. Does possess elite athleticism, you can see it on tape, but doesn’t combine it with any moves. I wouldn’t take him at 12. Has a high ceiling based off of athleticism, but that could take some time.

Devin Bush- good golly me Molly. I love devin whites tape, and I may just like Bush’s gametape more. I’d take either of them in the 1st, no questions asked.

I am a little lower on Gary, but tend to agree with all your takes. I think people in general are way too high on Burns. He had a stellar combine. On film he has some nice highlights, but the most down points of any guy we are looking at.

[MantyWrestler]

5 hours ago, smetana34 said:

If only it were that cut and dry

My point is that more than likely you will not find that kind of talent with 44. Could you, sure but that pick is worth that talent. 

I agree it’s not that simple but if you can make the numbers work, which the Packers can, it gets simpler. 

[boratt]

The guys at the top of this draft that seem to have a shot at making it to us....

 

i like Oliver, Devin White and as a last resort, I like burns. He’s so tall. It doesn’t look like he’s moving super fast, but he’s sneaky fast and has good bend. He has a lot of talent and I’d be excited with him too.

Oliver and Clark would be fun to watch for 5-10 years! I’d be very ok with that guy. And we’d still get a year or two out of Daniels to bring Oliver along. 

[Kenrik]

13 hours ago, n8ghee said:

I just watched a bunch of individual game tape...here are some of my initial thoughts while quickly watching.

 

Oliver-doesn’t have much against big time competition, that being said. I’d take him at 12, no questions asked. Greats power in his hands, with a super fast first step.

Sweat- hardly ever shows up on tape. He does have elite athleticism, but I don’t think his tape warrants a 1st round pick, let alone pick 12. Plays soft as butter.

Polite- plays a bit timid in non pass rushing situations, altho, in pass rushing situations...he has a fantastic first step, feet, and body control. High ceiling if he figures out the run game, should have success as a pass rusher soon. Based off tape, worthy of a 1st round pick to me.

Gary- solid feet and punch, I could see him being an above average defender against the run and pass. I like his floor compared to the other edge guys, worthy of a 1st round pick.

Burns- has some real horrible tape, especially against Bama. Does possess elite athleticism, you can see it on tape, but doesn’t combine it with any moves. I wouldn’t take him at 12. Has a high ceiling based off of athleticism, but that could take some time.

Devin Bush- good golly me Molly. I love devin whites tape, and I may just like Bush’s gametape more. I’d take either of them in the 1st, no questions asked.

Spot on bro!

[Mazrimiv]

On 3/9/2019 at 3:55 PM, incognito_man said:

12 - Sweat

30 - Polite

44 - Dee Ford

Agree with using #44 on Ford.  I'm currently thinking Oliver and Bush at 12 and 30

[BrettFavre004]

13 hours ago, n8ghee said:

I just watched a bunch of individual game tape...here are some of my initial thoughts while quickly watching.

 

Oliver-doesn’t have much against big time competition, that being said. I’d take him at 12, no questions asked. Greats power in his hands, with a super fast first step.

Sweat- hardly ever shows up on tape. He does have elite athleticism, but I don’t think his tape warrants a 1st round pick, let alone pick 12. Plays soft as butter.

Polite- plays a bit timid in non pass rushing situations, altho, in pass rushing situations...he has a fantastic first step, feet, and body control. High ceiling if he figures out the run game, should have success as a pass rusher soon. Based off tape, worthy of a 1st round pick to me.

Gary- solid feet and punch, I could see him being an above average defender against the run and pass. I like his floor compared to the other edge guys, worthy of a 1st round pick.

Burns- has some real horrible tape, especially against Bama. Does possess elite athleticism, you can see it on tape, but doesn’t combine it with any moves. I wouldn’t take him at 12. Has a high ceiling based off of athleticism, but that could take some time.

Devin Bush- good golly me Molly. I love devin whites tape, and I may just like Bush’s gametape more. I’d take either of them in the 1st, no questions asked.

Thanks for sharing always nice to see another set of eyes actually watching guys.

I'll agree with you on Bush, not as splashy as White, but he is damn good, if not better.

I similarly just went and watched a bunch of WR cuts.  Stanley Morgan Jr came away as my favorite WR in this draft.  He actually tested incredibly well as well.

[squire12]

4 hours ago, BrettFavre004 said:

Thanks for sharing always nice to see another set of eyes actually watching guys.

I'll agree with you on Bush, not as splashy as White, but he is damn good, if not better.

I similarly just went and watched a bunch of WR cuts.  Stanley Morgan Jr came away as my favorite WR in this draft.  He actually tested incredibly well as well.

Morgan Jr is growing on me as well.  Where to you think he gets drafted?   I am thinking later 3rd to 4th.

[Burnett42]

20 hours ago, Golfman said:

Really? You are going to pay somebody of lesser talent in free agency, or you're looking at the position being seriously short on talent again in 2019, even if you draft a guy at 12. Nobody on our roster strikes fear in offensives regarding their pass rush skills, NOBODY. 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I just answered a question asked, didnt give my option on how to handle the edge postion.

[Burnett42]

20 hours ago, Brat&Beer said:

If Devin White is available, he should be the pick. Explosive with no real weaknesses. People looking for pass rush should keep in mind that Pettine has always stressed inside pressure when rushing the passer. White can do that. Devin Bush would probably be available at 30, or maybe even 44. 

Bush doesn't make it past 20.

If teams are smart they draft him before White.

[Burnett42]

11 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

Agree with using #44 on Ford.  I'm currently thinking Oliver and Bush at 12 and 30

I think Hockenson has a better chance to make it to 30 than Bush. (Dont think either will be there)

Bush is the best MLB in the draft

[Golfman]

1 hour ago, Burnett42 said:

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I just answered a question asked, didnt give my option on how to handle the edge postion.

Neither do I as I quoted the wrong quote. Sorry!

[Dubz41]

For me the deciding factors between Sweat and Burns is that Sweat 'blew away' people at the combine, because nobody knew he was that fast.  He doesn't play that fast.  Sweat also had a legitimate DT top ten pick stirring things up in the middel in Simmons.  Also had an All SEC satety on the backend in Abrams.  Sweat is a good player who will go in the first round, but please not at 12.

Burns played on a no name defense.  The only other guy people would recognize is Christmas and that's just because of his name. Xmas was a very middle of the road DT with little pass rush ability.  Burns meanwhile showed ELITE athleticism.  Multiple pass rush moves and he is a year and a half younger than Sweat.  Burns also has a very high football IQ and reacts quicker.  The only question about Burns was weight, he answered that at the combine.  Came in at 249 and still killed the workouts.

[BrettFavre004]

10 hours ago, squire12 said:

Morgan Jr is growing on me as well.  Where to you think he gets drafted?   I am thinking later 3rd to 4th.

I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up in the tail end of round 2, his production and measureables are too good to last into the 4th, in my opinion.

[Arthur Penske]

Few more from McBinn

SECOND-ROUND POSSIBILITIES, DEFENSE (22)

DEXTER LAWRENCE*, NT, Clemson: 6-4 1/2, 342.

Helped himself with a 5.05 clocking at the combine. “He looked big,” said one scout. “He didn’t look sloppy. He ran fast. His weight will always be a concern but he is a good football player. He’s a good kid, too.” Was suspended for the College Football Playoff after testing positive for a banned performance-enhancing substance. “He is big as a house,” another scout said. “Big, massive man that can dominate at the point of attack. Not much of a pass rusher but just a dominant force. First round. He’s just not an up-field guy. He’ll push the pocket and be effective. He’ll be able to play on third down but he’s not going to win edges.”

JERRY TILLERY, DL, Notre Dame: 6-6 1/2, 295.

Rangy 5- or 3-technique. “He was more active this year than last year,” said one scout. “He’s got all the talent. You wish he were more productive. Excellent straight-line power rusher. Plays hard. In a normal year he’d be a definite first-round pick. Now he’s on the border.” Played extensively all four years, including the last two as a starter. Finished with just 13 ½ sacks, including eight in 2018. “Four of his eight sacks were against Stanford and they were awful up front,” another scout said. “Every Notre Dame guy’s best game was against Stanford. He can play 3-4 DE, he can play inside in a 4-3. Talent? He could be a first-round guy. Altogether? I don’t think so. He’s a big freaking roll of the dice as a player and a bigger role of the dice as a kid. His level of consistency over his career just hasn’t been there.” According to NFL Network, he underwent surgery Wednesday to repair a torn labrum in his shoulder. Added a third scout: “He’s smart as (bleep). I think he’s tougher than people give him credit for and he does actually like the game of football.”

JEFFERY SIMMONS*, DT, Mississippi State: 6-4, 300.

Started all three years in Starkville. “On talent alone he is a top-5 player,” said one scout. “He’s the most talented guy of this entire group. He can do what he wants when he wants, and he plays hard. He produces against both run and pass. He showed ability to dominate in a premier conference.” There are injury and character issues that probably will knock him from the first round. In February, he suffered a torn anterior cruciate knee ligament while working out. In high school, there’s video of him striking a woman who was engaged in a fistfight with his mother. He was charged with simple assault and disturbing the peace, and pleaded no contest. “You’ve got to shelve him – the guy’s not playing this year,” said the scout. “The off-the-field thing … he hit a woman, it’s on YouTube. It’s ugly. It’s also unfortunate because based on all other reports he sounds pretty much like a guy that everybody there (Mississippi State) loves.” Added another scout: “He’ll probably go early second round. He is a really good player. He’s better than (Christian) Wilkins and (Dre’Mont) Jones. Now you have to do your research on him to really understand the incident on the video.”

CHARLES OMENIHU, DE, Texas: 6-5 1/2, 280.

Played extensively all four seasons. “He’s talented,” one scout said. “They kind of waited for him to come out of his shell a little bit for a decent amount of his career. He’s very intriguing athletically. He’s a long guy. He has enough athletic ability to maybe play 5-technique or even a big left end in a 4-3. You can put him inside to rush. He’s more second round with first-round up side.” His arms measured 36. He ran 4.92. “I don’t like the guy at all,” another scout said. “He’s got some initial quickness but he’s not strong. His effort wasn’t real good, either. If he beat you with the first move, he makes a play. If not, he just catches a block and people push him around. Not very strong or very physical. I was really disappointed in him.”

ED ALEXANDER*, NT, Louisiana State: 6-3, 331.

Junior inside player. “I was surprised he didn’t go to the combine,” said one scout. “He played 1-technique and was their best defensive lineman. He can push the pocket. Second round.” Finished with 58 tackles and two sacks. “We like him,” another scout said. “He’s in that ballpark (top 60).” A third scout projected Alexander as a top-75 pick.

ANTHONY NELSON*, DL-Edge, Iowa: 6-7, 271.

Fourth-year junior. “More of a base end with edge pass-rush ability,” one scout said. “Complete player. Uses his hands well. He sheds (blocks). He’s almost 6-7 and has 36 ½ arms (measured at the Senior Bowl; his arm measurement at the combine was 34 7/8), and he uses his arms and hands extremely well. He is a coached-up player. I would think he’d be a terrific base end and he can rush the passer. He has such good arm extension that guys don’t get to him.” Three-year starter with 23 sacks. Ran 4.82. “He’s more like a banger outside,” said another scout. “I think the 3-4 teams are looking at him as a 5-technique. He wasn’t really dynamic movement-wise.”

JACHAI POLITE*, Edge, Florida: 6-2 ½, 258.

Third-year junior blossomed in 2018 by registering 11 of his 15 sacks. “More of a 3-4 outside linebacker,” said one scout. “Really fast and explosive. Excellent off the edge.” Ran poorly (4.82) at the combine and posted a pedestrian vertical jump of 32. “Yeah, but he still can rush the passer,” another scout said. “He’s got incredible takeoff. He can go inside a guy, go around a guy. His deal will be the consistency of holding up when he has to set the edge. And he’s just not very smart.” Arms were a mere 32 5/8. “We were disappointed in him, which kind of plays into who he is as a kid,” said a third scout. “He’s got a lot of issues. I wouldn’t call him a first; he’s even a reach to take in the second. I see him more third round with the whole package. But people overpay for rushers.” Added a fourth scout: “He has an explosive takeoff. If he doesn’t beat you with the first step he just stops. At the point of attack he plays high and they just knock the guy down. He’s a speed run-around guy. He does have a dip and a burst off the corner. Needs to develop technique, shed and start fighting pressure off the corner. I hope the teams (we play) take him in the first. Strictly an edge guy who can’t play in space. He’s short, too. He’s a small person. Limited growth potential.”

OSHANE XIMINES, Edge, Old Dominion: 6-3 1/2, 253.

Had his weight up to 253 at the combine and ran a disappointing 40 (4.78). “Really a good player,” said one scout. “Looks good physically. Primarily a two- or three-point rusher but he can play in space. Best as a 3-4 outside linebacker or an edge. Explosive with good hand use. Real good athlete. Second round.” Came across well in interviews at the combine. “Great kid, not a good kid,” said another scout. “I think he’s got something to him. I think he’s going to will himself to win. He’s going to be a situational pass rusher.” Added a third scout: “He’s a good player. He could be in the top 60 but he’s not special. Edge rusher.”

CHASE WINOVICH, Edge, Michigan: 6-2 ½, 256.

Moved up with a 4.59 clocking at the combine. “He’s Ryan Kerrigan,” one scout said. “People don’t like him but all the guy does is play hard. I want him on my team. He said you’d have to kill him before you get him off the field for the bowl (Chick-fil-A Peach) game. (Rashan) Gary bypassed it. In the end those are the guys that end up being the players. He’s the type of guy that’s playing for the Patriots now. A lot of guys on their defense aren’t great athletes. They’re smart, play hard and do what they’re told.” A fifth-year senior, he played the run as well as the pass (18 ½ sacks). “He plays with leverage,” said the scout. “I’ve seen him drop a few times and it looks like he can play in space.” Short arms (32 ¾) and so-so vertical jump (30 ½). “I would just say don’t confuse production with talent,” another scout said. “Nor activity for achievement. You’ve got to have traits to win.”

MACK WILSON*, LB, Alabama: 6-1, 240.

Waited until 2018 before becoming a starter at a position that’s always stacked in Tuscaloosa. “First-round pick,” said one scout. “He can run to the ball. Square tackler. He’s got an intuitive feel. He makes plays.” Didn’t work out in Indianapolis. “At the very least he’s a very good second-round pick,” said a second scout. “He can run. He’s tough. Pretty good player.” Recovered six fumbles but didn’t force any. “(Dylan) Moses, the sophomore (inside linebacker), he’s really good,” said another scout. “Mack was just a guy. He sits, waits, catches. He’s nothing like the guy they had last year playing the position (Rashaan Evans). He does have some range. He’ll make some plays laterally at times. He does look like a good athlete. But I ended up rejecting him.”

BOBBY OKEREKE, LB, Stanford: 6-1 1/2, 239.

After performing well at the combine he’s in position to challenge for the No. 3 LB berth behind Devin White and Devin Bush. “He doesn’t have the punch those guys have because he’s not built like them,” said one scout. “They’re square and thick. This guy is more angular. He’s got long arms (34 ½). He’s a heck of a space player. He’s what you want right now. You just wish he were a little bit more physical. Second round.” Played outside in 2017 before moving inside and leading the Cardinal in tackles (94). “Late second, early third,” said another scout. “He doesn’t have the twitch to get off the spot. There’s not suddenness about his play. He does have instincts and feel.”

GERMAINE PRATT, LB, North Carolina State: 6-2 1/2, 240.

Fifth-year senior. “Don’t forget about him,” said one scout. “He’s close to the second round. Very intense. Able to use his hands. He can run to the ball and stack the point.” Ran a good 40 (4.57) in Indy. “Third round,” said another scout. “Athletic player who is best in space. Good ball locate and fill. Average block take-on. Lateral space guy now. Needs better aggressiveness, block take-on, shed against the run. Vocal leader. Second year at linebacker. Was a safety.”

ROCK YA-SIN, CB, Temple: 5-11 ½, 192.

When Presbyterian downgraded its football program after the 2017 season he transferred to Temple. Was graded as a free agent by National Football Scouting entering 2018. “He’s a wild-card sleeper for the first round,” one scout said. “He’s really good. He went down to the Senior Bowl and lit it up. He was one of the best guys there. He’s also a special kid. Just kind of a crazy story. It would not surprise me at all to see him in the first round.” Was an outstanding prep wrestler, which is an odd background for an NFL cornerback. First name is Abdurrahman. “He’s more of a zone guy but he’s a good football player,” said another scout. “I’m thinking more third round. If he runs fast he could go in the second but I don’t think he will. He’ll be in the 4.5s.” He ran 4.53 in Indy and had a vertical jump of 39 ½. Long arms (32), large hands (9 7/8). “You talk about quick,” a third scout said. “You talk about hips and feet, and change of direction. Good tackler. I was shocked.”

TRAYVON MULLEN*, CB, Clemson: 6-1 1/2, 199.

Played three seasons for the two-time national champions, starting in 2017-’18. “For sure top 60,” one scout said. “He has some physicality to him. He’s a pretty well-rounded guy.” Ran 4.46 at the combine. “He’s long, he’s athletic, he can flip his hips and put his foot in the ground and come out of transition,” another scout said. Arms were 31. “You wonder how good he’d be if he didn’t play at Clemson,” said one scout mindful of the Tigers’ fierce pass rush. “He’s tall. He’s physical. But he always needs an extra step where he gathers to change direction. He’s really tight. I don’t see speed.”

JULIAN LOVE, CB*, Notre Dame: 5-10 ½, 195.

Moved into the starting lineup early in his true freshman season (2016) and remained there for 2 ½ years. “He may be back end of the first, second for sure,” said one scout. “Really, really good football player. Not elite level fast. Not elite level height and length. He’s an ideal nickel is what he is but he can play outside. He is a super kid.” Ran a marginal time (4.54) at the combine. Arm length (31 ¾) was very good. “He is quick,” another scout said. “For some reason he doesn’t make plays. I wish he would make more.” Finished with five interceptions and 44 passes defensed.

ISAIAH JOHNSON, CB, Houston: 6-2, 208.

Fifth-year senior that converted from wide receiver to cornerback in 2017. “Tremendous up side due to size, speed and length,” said one scout. “Long, linear athlete with easy hips. Still learning to do the little things right. Questionable toughness.” Even at his size he still ran 4.40 at the combine. Arms measured 33. “Stiff guy,” said another scout. “Tall corner with straight-line speed and adequate quickness. Some hip tightness. Doesn’t play to his 40 speed. Don’t see closing burst at any level. Probably best as an NFL safety but don’t know about his instincts. Sixth, seventh round.” Said a third scout: “He’s real. Late second or third round.”

JOHNATHAN ABRAM, S, Mississippi State: 5-11, 205.

Started a few games at Georgia in 2015, transferred to a junior college in ’16 and then started two years for the Bulldogs. “Not first round, more second,” one scout said. “He’s just a (expletive) hammer. He can run but he’s more of a run-down player. Not that he stinks against the pass, but if you’re drafting him you’re drafting him to be an enforcer.” Ran a fast 40 (4.44) at the combine and fared well in positional drills. “Box guy,” said another scout. “Not a big-time cover guy but he can cover and he is a big-time hitter. Second round. He’s not special.”

NASIR ADDERLEY, S, Delaware: 5-11 ½, 206.

Four-year starter (pictured above) for the FCS Blue Hens. “I thought this was going to be a joke but it was no joke,” sad one scout. “He’s instinctive, quick and has good ball skills (11 interceptions). I’d move him to corner. The guy can cover people.” His cousin, Herb, was a Hall of Fame cornerback for Green Bay. “He’s just OK,” said another scout. “His tape was better than he played at the Senior Bowl. Mid rounds.” Declined to run at the combine, claiming he had an ankle injury. “We thought he was really overrated,” a third scout said. “He’s getting a ton of hype. I don’t know where this hype machine is coming from. He got a pick at the Senior Bowl that was kind of thrown right to him. He’s not that good. Sounds like this kid will be gone in the second. We thought he was too stiff for corner.”

TAYLOR RAPP*, S, Washington: 5-11 ½, 208.

Third-year junior started all three years as a combination-type safety. “He’s a free safety,” said one scout. “He is tough. He’s no first-rounder. More second. He’s a good player.” Another scout had him pegged for the second or third round. Didn’t run at the combine because of a hip injury that dates back several months. “He’s smart and tough but he can’t cover,” said a third scout. “Stiff guy. Fourth, fifth round. The coaches there love him and talk about him. He’s a tall, skinny guy. He’s a good football player but he’s not special.” Two teams have him ranked as one of their top two safeties.

MARQUISE BLAIR, S, Utah: 6-1, 195.

Spent two years at a junior college before joining the Utes and starting for two seasons. “Great open-field tackler,” said one scout. “Showed well at the Senior Bowl. Second or third round.” Gained 12 pounds in a year but still ran 4.48 at the combine. “Physical in run support,” said another scout. “Flashes strike. Adequate wrap tackler. Good range on the back end.”

JUAN THORNHILL, S, Virginia: 6-0, 205.

Turned in a fantastic combine performance: 4.42 in the 40, vertical jump of 44 and broad jump of 11-9. “He has the versatility to line up in the slot, in the box, two deep and center field,” said one scout. “Instinctive player with good ball skills, hands and range. Low tackler. Will miss when he doesn’t break down. Played corner in 2017 but has safety cover ability. I think free safety would be his best position because of instincts, range and ball skills. Third round.” Three-year starter with 13 interceptions.

LONNIE JOHNSON, CB-S, Kentucky: 6-2, 213.

“He’s long and he can run and he’s competitive,” said one scout. “Ball skills aren’t quite there yet. But if you play press you’re going to like him.” Junior-college transfer spent two years with the Wildcats, starting for 1 ½ seasons. “Tall corner best at press (coverage),” said another scout. “Height, straight-line speed are his best attributes. Upright guy who isn’t quick. He has to gather to change directions. At least he’s loose. Safety would be a possibility but he needs to tackle better. Sixth, seventh round.” Made just one interception in two seasons at Kentucky. Ran 4.52 with a vertical jump of 38 and a broad jump of 10-8. Arms were 32 5/8. “He’s a safety,” added a third scout. “It’s a projection, but in today’s football you can take guys like Lonnie Johnson and kick them inside, too. Late second, third round.”