ET80 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 53 minutes ago, candyman93 said: I thought he’d be able to protect the football at an elite level coming out of college. The interceptions have surprised me. This - he was known for really being careful with the ball. Was it him or the scheme? Nonetheless, I'm surprised by how he's turned out. No doubt the Titans don't pick up the 5th year option on him, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 He had a spark when he started than become garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Remember the Winston/Mariota vs Goff/Wentz thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I am suprised he has been this bad. Great kid, greath athleticism, showed a insane ability to protect the football in college and early in his NFL career, seems to study the game well and have a good football IQ. I thought he would be a Teddy Bridgewater like upper tier game-manager w/ better running ability at worse. He looks like Johnny Manziel out there at times this year. No idea whats going on. The Titans OL was supossed to be elite? Is it Mariota holding the ball way too long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, ET80 said: This - he was known for really being careful with the ball. Was it him or the scheme? Nonetheless, I'm surprised by how he's turned out. No doubt the Titans don't pick up the 5th year option on him, right? We will. Simply because I don't think there's any good QB's coming out of the draft and your gonna have to pay anyone decent in FA (if there even is anyone decent), so you may as well see what he can do in his 2nd year in the offense and after we re-equip him with some weapons in the offseason after Rishard quit and Walker being an unknown with his injury that ended his season. But yeah he's in large part to blame for the loss this weekend, but outside of that nobody can point to many plays this year where you can honestly sit there and say, "yeah Marcus really is at fault there." Maybe when he missed a seemingly wide open Jonnu Smith last week against Buffalo? Even still, that play should have been a touchdown but Nick Williams dropped an absolute dime. The interception right before the half against Philly? Maybe he should have been more conservative, but at the same time Corey Davis also ran the wrong route. But what else? The Miami interceptions after his ulnar nerve got dinged and he couldn’t feel his hand? I'd agree that yes, he shouldn’t have went back in if it was that bad however, his other 2 interceptions I don’t blame him for and the 2 against Miami weren’t decision making issues. As for the players around him though, I can point to multiple dropped passes that should have been 3rd down conversions, multiple dropped passes that should have been touchdowns, wrong routes ran leading to interceptions, poor routes ran leading to interceptions, and an absolutely horrendous rushing attack. I agree with everyone that he can be better, but it's not like anyone around him is doing him any favors either. Even though we only scored 9, anyone who understood the context going in to the Jacksonville game was praising his play for coming off the bench and pulling out a win with a numb hand against an elite defense on the road. He followed it up by beating the defending champs on a game winning overtime drive with 3 TD’s and almost 400 yards total offense in which he could have just folded after Darius Jennings dropped a wide open touchdown pass in overtime. The Bills game was a dud yeah, but lets also break it down. Of the 9 possessions that game, 3 ended in turnovers in errors committed by receivers, 4 ended in field goals but one of those field goals should have been a touchdown - wide open over the shoulder dime in the endzone that I mentioned earlier that was dropped (you can watch it here if you'd like, the play starts at 6:03 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGwzystiEU&t=368s), and 2 ended in punts. But ultimately yes, he still had the opportunity to score touchdowns instead of field goals when he got in to Buffalo's territory and at the end of the day he failed to. We can put the blame on him for that game I'm fine with that, but at the same time we do win if that catch is made. The Baltimore game obviously he was trash and as someone who's watched 99% of his snaps, I've never seen him that skittish and indecisive. That was absolutely his most rock bottom performance. Either Baltimore just rattled and confused him that bad, or he's just broken along with the rest of our offense. Call me a homer I guess, but it would be hard for just about any QB to have success if they lost their top 2 receiving options from the previous 2 seasons along with having the 2nd highest drop rate in the NFL and a rushing attack that’s only averaging 74 yards a game after you subtract Marcus’ rushing yards. He's not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson or Big Ben or any of those big time QB's that can turn **** in to gold when everything is collapsing around them. He needs help and he's not getting any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 11 hours ago, dtait93 said: We will. Simply because I don't think there's any good QB's coming out of the draft and your gonna have to pay anyone decent in FA (if there even is anyone decent), so you may as well see what he can do in his 2nd year in the offense and after we re-equip him with some weapons in the offseason after Rishard quit and Walker being an unknown with his injury that ended his season. But yeah he's in large part to blame for the loss this weekend, but outside of that nobody can point to many plays this year where you can honestly sit there and say, "yeah Marcus really is at fault there." Maybe when he missed a seemingly wide open Jonnu Smith last week against Buffalo? Even still, that play should have been a touchdown but Nick Williams dropped an absolute dime. The interception right before the half against Philly? Maybe he should have been more conservative, but at the same time Corey Davis also ran the wrong route. But what else? The Miami interceptions after his ulnar nerve got dinged and he couldn’t feel his hand? I'd agree that yes, he shouldn’t have went back in if it was that bad however, his other 2 interceptions I don’t blame him for and the 2 against Miami weren’t decision making issues. As for the players around him though, I can point to multiple dropped passes that should have been 3rd down conversions, multiple dropped passes that should have been touchdowns, wrong routes ran leading to interceptions, poor routes ran leading to interceptions, and an absolutely horrendous rushing attack. I agree with everyone that he can be better, but it's not like anyone around him is doing him any favors either. Even though we only scored 9, anyone who understood the context going in to the Jacksonville game was praising his play for coming off the bench and pulling out a win with a numb hand against an elite defense on the road. He followed it up by beating the defending champs on a game winning overtime drive with 3 TD’s and almost 400 yards total offense in which he could have just folded after Darius Jennings dropped a wide open touchdown pass in overtime. The Bills game was a dud yeah, but lets also break it down. Of the 9 possessions that game, 3 ended in turnovers in errors committed by receivers, 4 ended in field goals but one of those field goals should have been a touchdown - wide open over the shoulder dime in the endzone that I mentioned earlier that was dropped (you can watch it here if you'd like, the play starts at 6:03 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGwzystiEU&t=368s), and 2 ended in punts. But ultimately yes, he still had the opportunity to score touchdowns instead of field goals when he got in to Buffalo's territory and at the end of the day he failed to. We can put the blame on him for that game I'm fine with that, but at the same time we do win if that catch is made. The Baltimore game obviously he was trash and as someone who's watched 99% of his snaps, I've never seen him that skittish and indecisive. That was absolutely his most rock bottom performance. Either Baltimore just rattled and confused him that bad, or he's just broken along with the rest of our offense. Call me a homer I guess, but it would be hard for just about any QB to have success if they lost their top 2 receiving options from the previous 2 seasons along with having the 2nd highest drop rate in the NFL and a rushing attack that’s only averaging 74 yards a game after you subtract Marcus’ rushing yards. He's not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson or Big Ben or any of those big time QB's that can turn **** in to gold when everything is collapsing around them. He needs help and he's not getting any. It’s fair to say he’s had to overcome adversity. But he’s not had to face drops from his WR’s this year vs. the rest of the league - the biggest problem is that he’s just been a complete zero facing pressure. In his first 2 years he scrambled and kept his eyes up to extend plays. Now he’s flinching and not showing any pocket awareness. Losing Delanie Walker hurt as he was the O’s security blanket. But Rishard Matthews hasn’t been their best receiver since early last year. Taywan Taylor clearly is ready to help Corey Davis. Dion Lewis is a very capable safety valve option. Mariota has just been awful at read progression and D recognition. He clearly has lost confidence. The elbow injury is a legit reason for his throwing struggles. But his struggles against pressure and total lack of using Lewis are on him and the OC Lafleur. And the Titans O skill players aren’t nearly as bad as the very worst O’s. But he’s literally bottom 5 vs. pressure. That’s on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 He has one of the better OL in the league and decent weapons to throw to. He sucks like I knew he would, because Oregon didn't bother to teach him how to make more than 2 reads or throw receivers open. And he doesn't run enough to keep defenses honest. He's basically Dak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, Broncofan said: It’s fair to say he’s had to overcome adversity. But he’s not had to face drops from his WR’s this year vs. the rest of the league - the biggest problem is that he’s just been a complete zero facing pressure. In his first 2 years he scrambled and kept his eyes up to extend plays. Now he’s flinching and not showing any pocket awareness. Losing Delanie Walker hurt as he was the O’s security blanket. But Richard Matthews hasn’t been their best receiver since early last year. Taywan Taylor clearly is ready to help Corey Davis. Dion Lewis is a very capable safety valve option. Mariota has just been awful at read progression and D recognition. He clearly has lost confidence. The elbow injury is a legit reason for his throwing struggles. But his struggles against pressure and total lack of using Lewis are on him and the OC Lafleur. And the Titans O skill players aren’t nearly as bad as the very worst O’s. But he’s literally bottom 5 vs. pressure. That’s on him. yeah, i mostly agree with this. i will say though that the ravens game was the single worst i've ever seen him against pressure by a country mile. he was dropping his eyes almost immediately and i've literally never seen that before from him. his pocket movement skills have been pretty good in the past, so it was really shocking, honestly. gotta think that some of it is from unfamiliarity with the new offense, but really it's just hard to say between the offensive turnover and his constant injuries what can be salvaged at this point and whether he's going to be able to take that next step. he's certainly trending in the wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 13 hours ago, ET80 said: This - he was known for really being careful with the ball. Was it him or the scheme? Nonetheless, I'm surprised by how he's turned out. No doubt the Titans don't pick up the 5th year option on him, right? He's probably just Alex Smith style careful with the ball. @pwny keeps quoting the open receivers stat, and that's always been Alex Smith's bread and butter. You only throw to a guy if he is visibly and safely open. No contested throws, no tipped balls or impressive INTs. It keeps the turnover numbers incredibly low....if you're winning. But eventually, if you're losing or behind, you have to cut that out eventually and get aggressive, and then the INTs come. It's why Smith seemed so horrendous at 4th quarter comebacks. Had to change his game. Guys like Tom Brady have low INT numbers because they're just incredibly accurate and have great field vision. Guys like Alex Smith have low INT numbers because they don't throw the ball unless no one is anywhere near the WR. Mariota is probably just the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, Jakuvious said: He's probably just Alex Smith style careful with the ball. @pwny keeps quoting the open receivers stat, and that's always been Alex Smith's bread and butter. You only throw to a guy if he is visibly and safely open. No contested throws, no tipped balls or impressive INTs. It keeps the turnover numbers incredibly low....if you're winning. But eventually, if you're losing or behind, you have to cut that out eventually and get aggressive, and then the INTs come. Guys like Tom Brady have low INT numbers because they're just incredibly accurate and have great field vision. Guys like Alex Smith have low INT numbers because they don't throw the ball unless no one is anywhere near the WR. Mariota is probably just the latter. i'm actually curious about what that open receivers number looked like the past couple of years. matt lafleur has been scheming guys open and relying on YAC much more than mike mularkey, whose offense was predicated on pushing the ball deep and relying on receivers winning matchups downfield- which we didn't exactly have the receivers to do with. so it always felt like mariota was throwing a good number of contested balls and downfield shots- i know his air yards were always pretty high and his YAC numbers always pretty low the past two years. i would suspect that that number would be lower in years past, but i'm speculating, so i could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Broncofan said: It’s fair to say he’s had to overcome adversity. But he’s not had to face drops from his WR’s this year vs. the rest of the league - the biggest problem is that he’s just been a complete zero facing pressure. In his first 2 years he scrambled and kept his eyes up to extend plays. Now he’s flinching and not showing any pocket awareness. Losing Delanie Walker hurt as he was the O’s security blanket. But Richard Matthews hasn’t been their best receiver since early last year. Taywan Taylor clearly is ready to help Corey Davis. Dion Lewis is a very capable safety valve option. Mariota has just been awful at read progression and D recognition. He clearly has lost confidence. The elbow injury is a legit reason for his throwing struggles. But his struggles against pressure and total lack of using Lewis are on him and the OC Lafleur. And the Titans O skill players aren’t nearly as bad as the very worst O’s. But he’s literally bottom 5 vs. pressure. That’s on him. Outside of the Baltimore game, he had been keeping his eyes up to extend plays. Against Miami, Jacksonville, Philly and Buffalo he made multiple plays doing exactly what your talking about. I have literally never seen him drop his eyes almost immediately like he did against Baltimore and **** on himself Eli Manning style. He does not trust the new mechanics he has been learning under LaFleur, or the new offense, or his receivers. Trust is his major issues right now and it’s leading to indecisiveness. As for skill players, Corey Davis is pretty unproven outside of 1 game he blew up in and yeah Dion is good, but outside of them who can you even consider decent? Taylor? Sharpe? Jennings? Whatever random practice squader we decide to promote as our 5th receiver? Jonnu? Stocker? Firkser? Our skill players are bad. They are undoubtedly up there with the worst of the worst O’s. I would argue we have the worst WR and TE corps in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 hes gritty so he can tough it out and grind it and will his team to win, all without throwing very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 29 minutes ago, Jeezla said: He has one of the better OL in the league and decent weapons to throw to. He sucks like I knew he would, because Oregon didn't bother to teach him how to make more than 2 reads or throw receivers open. And he doesn't run enough to keep defenses honest. He's basically Dak. What are his decent weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, dtait93 said: What are his decent weapons? Corey Davis, Taywan Taylor, Sharpe, and Dion Lewis would all have better stats with an average qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Jeezla said: Corey Davis, Taywan Taylor, Sharpe, and Dion Lewis would all have better stats with an average qb. Taylor and Sharpe have literally done nothing to prove they are decent weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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