Baltimore Ravens 2019 Offseason Tracker

[coordinator0]

Yes. This is fine too. 

[baltimoreRebel]

I don't mind this as depth and a low risk high reward potential. The guy is always injured though. 

[Danand]

I really liked Shane Ray coming out of college. Too bad he never was able to stay healthy and be the high energy pass rusher he was

[coordinator0]

[M.10.E]

Making moves. More swings at decent players.

Edited May 17, 2019 by M.10.E

[coordinator0]

Yeah, I don't mind bringing in veterans to compete with the younger players. DeCosta is doing it in a good way though. Likely minimum deals or something close to it. Don't go out and spend a lot of money on a position then turn around and draft at the same area of need. 

[SalvadorsDeli]

I like the Ray signing a lot. He's a young guy with a lot of talent who has flashed that talent in the league before, even if it's a couple of years removed at this point. Gotta think that as a reclamation project he's the kind of guy Wink has the potential to turn around - and if it doesn't work out that's fine too. I think in the end only one of McPhee and Ray will make the team but having them in the room during training camp is going to help push Bowser and Williams to earn their stripes. 

[wackywabbit]

1 hour ago, coordinator0 said:

Yeah, I don't mind bringing in veterans to compete with the younger players. DeCosta is doing it in a good way though. Likely minimum deals or something close to it. Don't go out and spend a lot of money on a position then turn around and draft at the same area of need. 

Exactly. These moves aren't the type where the veteran player will be handed a job and snaps to justify the investment. If the young guys are ready to help the team, these additions will not stop them.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I'm cool with literally all of these signings. Floyd can be a good blocker / possession WR if he makes the roster. Ray adds more edge rush and McPhee adds more interior rush.

[berlin calling]

If Lasley/Jordan make the team they'll have earned it. i like that. bring it rooks.

[coordinator0]

The current DL roster: Brandon Williams / Michael Pierce / Chris Wormley / Zach Seiler / Willie Henry / Daylon Mack / Gerald Willis

Interesting that there isn't any camp fodder depth right now. That's fine though, get those latter five guys as many reps in camp as they can handle. I think we will see some Pierce/Williams/Mack alignments this season too if the rookie can get on the field. That's an obvious short-yardage stuffer group.

[DreamKid]

8 hours ago, Danand said:

Whats wrong with that response? The personal reference or the fact that Bowser and Williams could be Alec Ogletree types of players that flash, but beyond those plays are bad?

Bowser and Williams weren't the players of contention. SP was tying himself in knots trying to justify Orlando not starting, and remaining on the bench. Which is basically impossible to do, so he was resorting to the ol' "How do we know?"s. 

So your post didn't apply to the situation as 1. I know you like Orlando Brown Jr., and were high on him above everyone else around here throughout the process. I even remember you saying you'd rather draft him in the 1st than Derwin James. 2. Alex Lewis would be the player being replaced, not some super established player. Which you alluded to yourself being. So the real world example you drew upon didn't apply.

I do think you're a little biased against Tim Williams and Tyus Bowser though. You don't seem to offer up the same optimism for them as you do for other backups. Like Chuck Clark for example. Which is fine. If you have some concrete issue with them, but I haven't seen anything like that from you. It's usually just some reference to athleticism being overrated, or things similar to your Ogletree take.

If part time players didn't flash, they would be cut. Now atop the depth chart. Matt Judon got his start through flashes. I don't remember you dragging him the way you do Tyus & Tim. And if anything he's proved that he should be a more managed player. He isn't strong against the run, and his gas tank is limited.

Also, Williams and Bowser are specialist players. Williams is never going to be a bad pass rusher, and Bowser is never going to be bad in coverage. They're clear assets that  actually have less liability if deployed correctly. 

If your issue with them is they aren't strong against the run, fine. They aren't. Neither were any of our guys, with the exception of Suggs, though. That's also the least important aspect of defensive football right now too. When given increased opportunity they haven't fallen apart, they've put up better numbers. Bowser even won Rookie of The Week when he actually got over 30 snaps.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised you aren't in a guy like Tim Williams' corner. He's undersized and he isn't a great athlete. Tim wins through technique, tenacity, and skill. He isn't some JJ Watt, Myles Garrett, Khalil Mack freakshow athlete that is bigger/stronger/faster than all of his competition. Seems like you'd gravitate towards him idk.

[DreamKid]

24 minutes ago, coordinator0 said:

Interesting that there isn't any camp fodder depth right now. That's fine though, get those latter five guys as many reps in camp as they can handle. I think we will see some Pierce/Williams/Mack alignments this season too if the rookie can get on the field. That's an obvious short-yardage stuffer group.

Our Preseason DI combinations will be so fun to watch. Hard to see us not maintain that W streak.

[Danand]

12 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Bowser and Williams weren't the players of contention. SP was tying himself in knots trying to justify Orlando not starting, and remaining on the bench. Which is basically impossible to do, so he was resorting to the ol' "How do we know?"s. 

So your post didn't apply to the situation as 1. I know you like Orlando Brown Jr., and were high on him above everyone else around here throughout the process. I even remember you saying you'd rather draft him in the 1st than Derwin James. 2. Alex Lewis would be the player being replaced, not some super established player. Which you alluded to yourself being. So the real world example you drew upon didn't apply.

I do think you're a little biased against Tim Williams and Tyus Bowser though. You don't seem to offer up the same optimism for them as you do for other backups. Like Chuck Clark for example. Which is fine. If you have some concrete issue with them, but I haven't seen anything like that from you. It's usually just some reference to athleticism being overrated, or things similar to your Ogletree take.

If part time players didn't flash, they would be cut. Now atop the depth chart. Matt Judon got his start through flashes. I don't remember you dragging him the way you do Tyus & Tim. And if anything he's proved that he should be a more managed player. He isn't strong against the run, and his gas tank is limited.

Also, Williams and Bowser are specialist players. Williams is never going to be a bad pass rusher, and Bowser is never going to be bad in coverage. They're clear assets that  actually have less liability if deployed correctly. 

If your issue with them is they aren't strong against the run, fine. They aren't. Neither were any of our guys, with the exception of Suggs, though. That's also the least important aspect of defensive football right now too. When given increased opportunity they haven't fallen apart, they've put up better numbers. Bowser even won Rookie of The Week when he actually got over 30 snaps.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised you aren't in a guy like Tim Williams' corner. He's undersized and he isn't a great athlete. Tim wins through technique, tenacity, and skill. He isn't some JJ Watt, Myles Garrett, Khalil Mack freakshow athlete that is bigger/stronger/faster than all of his competition. Seems like you'd gravitate towards him idk.

I don't have an issue with either Bowser or Williams. I have an issue with fans in general being so certain they know better about what goes on behind the lines of what we can see, and build up these random stories that Harbaugh and the coaching staff hates to play rookies/young players to a degree, where they play worse players and let better players sit.

At least one in here think we have garbage on dline although the players we have had as rotational pieces played well and wasn't placed on the bench although the also are young players like Bowser and Williams.

This alluded me to contemplate, that despite their ceilings as players, something is holding the team back from playing them - not just because Harbaugh doesn't like rookies. Brown is an example where I also think he should have played - but I could also see a reason to give him some time on the bench, as he had the probably longest season of all with how much work they put on him in OTA's and TC. They might have played it safe with him, so he didn't hit the rookie wall too hard. Its guess work, and I think they should have let him start - especially as Hurst seemed to be the better option at LG than Lewis.

And just to make it clear, I am all in on what both Tim Williams and Bowser can bring. I still hope they become really good players, because they are the most athletic and talented players we have had at that position since Adalius Thomas, and I would rather want them to get their breakthrough this year, so we isn't forced to pay Matt Judon top notch OLB money next year.

If I ever seem to come down hard on Bowser and Williams, it is because they are once again highly regarded talents and picks, that didn't pan out for other reasons than their ability.

[DreamKid]

15 hours ago, Danand said:

I have an issue with fans in general being so certain they know better about what goes on behind the lines of what we can see, and build up these random stories that Harbaugh and the coaching staff hates to play rookies/young players to a degree, where they play worse players and let better players sit.

 

15 hours ago, Danand said:

This alluded me to contemplate, that despite their ceilings as players, something is holding the team back from playing them - not just because Harbaugh doesn't like rookies. Brown is an example where I also think he should have played - but I could also see a reason to give him some time on the bench, as he had the probably longest season of all with how much work they put on him in OTA's and TC. They might have played it safe with him, so he didn't hit the rookie wall too hard. Its guess work, and I think they should have let him start - especially as Hurst seemed to be the better option at LG than Lewis.

See this is where the problem comes in. Why are you more willing to believe that our young players(frequently of higher character & football IQ than other clubs') across multiple classes- all have some issue so dire they can't be trusted to contribute? Than the much simpler answer, that the constant in the equation- (Harbaugh) prefers to not lean on younger players. 

If you're a Harbaugh apologist or are simply looking to spin his decisions into a better light. Then you should be pounding the table for this propensity of his as the answer. A coach not wanting to rely on younger inexperienced players is perfectly reasonable. That he carries the philosophy to a fault is the only criticism. That is the conclusion that puts Harbaugh in a better light. The alternative isn't believing that so many young players all have a disqualifying issue which keeps them from the field. That is an illogical position to hold. The alternative is Harbaugh failing to a higher degree in not having his players properly prepared to contribute.- Luckily though, we all know that isn't the case. Why? Because there are so many examples of said young players, replacing injured veterans and immediately flashing on the field. 

You can make the argument that Orlando needed rest. He clearly didn't need any extra reps, mental or otherwise. Which is why all of us understood when he didn't play in our final preseason game. That was rest. You could even push it into the Bills game, which was essentially another preseason/slaughter game for us. Brown came in with the 2nd team in that game and played great just as we expected him to. The issue comes in when it's clear that Alex Lewis shouldn't be starting, Hurst was an above average guard in 2017, we're handicapping our Tight Ends using them to bail out/help a simply passable tackle in Hurst, and all the while Orlando is just rotting on the bench. A quarter & a half into the season, that isn't rest- it's a coaching error. Only injury finally pushed him into the starting lineup- as so often is the case. And as a result his first start came in a mega game against the Saints and Cam Jordan. A completely non ideal debut scenario for any rookie. Interpreting or theorizing such a route to starting time for Orlando as "grand design" or "coach knows best" as SP did, is a position so ridiculous it shouldn't be entertained.  Making the Brown Jr.-Hurst-Lewis switch Week 1 or 2 could've been the tipping point in 2 or 3 major losses that put us in a tough position later on in the season. I think he would've fared great against Dunlap Week 2, just as he did Week 11. And starting earlier would've expedited his development. Giving us a better version of him each successive week. Which is one of the many major reasons why significant playing time is so important for young top-tier potential latent players. 

15 hours ago, Danand said:

At least one in here think we have garbage on dline although the players we have had as rotational pieces played well

We all know how garbage that source's player analysis is. It's no different than someone completely unfamiliar with the team.

15 hours ago, Danand said:

And just to make it clear, I am all in on what both Tim Williams and Bowser can bring. I still hope they become really good players, because they are the most athletic and talented players we have had at that position since Adalius Thomas, and I would rather want them to get their breakthrough this year, so we isn't forced to pay Matt Judon top notch OLB money next year.

I agree, and honestly I'm sure it looks like Bowser & Williams are my favorite players ever at times- but that really isn't the case. I just think the narrative gets out of control too often with players who aren't given chances to contribute.

The only thing that matters to me is the Ravens winning football games. If Bowser and Williams are indeed players with nothing to contribute to that cause, then I don't want them starting or even playing. Nothing indicates that being the reality though. We have two young players we've invested early round picks in. Who have specialized skill sets we could've made use of for 2 seasons now. Poorly timed injuries, veterans, meh special teams prowess, lacking rotations/deployment, and in Tim's case off field issues(however minor). Have all contributed to their less than ideal snap totals to this point.

I think we'll see both emerge this season and each drop 10+ Sacks. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by DreamKid