Raiders Defense

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

I preferred Ritchie grant personally as a fit for the type of Safety that we need but like I said I trust Gus Bradley on this one

I liked Grant as well but he was an older rookie and I don't think he has the same athleticism/range as Moehrig. 

[Darbsk]

15 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

15 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Yeah, Moehrig should be good, he has IQ and instincts you can't teach. Interested to see how he holds up in single high as a rookie though not an easy job for anyone.

I'm not really sold on him to be honest BUT Gus Bradley's credit is good with me 

Any particular reason why you weren't sold?

For the record the guy I really liked was Cisco given his 3rd round value and potential upside but Moehrig in the first was a close second. To get him in the second I thought was great.

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Any particular reason why you weren't sold?

For the record the guy I really liked was Cisco given his 3rd round value and potential upside but Moehrig in the first was a close second. To get him in the second I thought was great.

1. He’s not the best tackler.

2. The thing that makes him special is the fact that he is a safety that can play man like a corner which is really good trait to have but that’s not really a skill set that he will be used for as a single high safety 

3. he himself said that he didn’t really play single high safety (which are completely different responsibilities than a split safety.

overall my thing is it’s more of a projection(which isn’t inherently bad but I don’t think it’s a good idea to get someone who specializes in some thing and then play him in a way that doesn’t emphasize the strengths. It’s actually why I think Solomon Thomas has a chance to be pretty good at 3T Because he wasn’t used that way since he’s been in the league)

all that being said I feel much better about it than I would’ve because Grant was gone before we picked and Moehrig wasn’t picked in the first round. He also has an off-season to make the transition 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Jeremy408

[Jeremy408]

7 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I liked Grant as well but he was an older rookie and I don't think he has the same athleticism/range as Moehrig. 

In terms of age Ive understood that(although the falcons who took him as the first safety off the board didn’t seem to care too much about that)

In terms of range I don’t necessarily agree. I thought Grant put up better range on film (especially from a single high spot)

in terms of athleticism I thought of this too close for it to matter.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Jeremy408

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Any particular reason why you weren't sold?

For the record the guy I really liked was Cisco given his 3rd round value and potential upside but Moehrig in the first was a close second. To get him in the second I thought was great.

Gillespie was my guy and Diablo #2 but I liked moehrig just questioned his speed. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by NCOUGHMAN

[Geezy]

12 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Agreed. The only two players we drafted that will start or get consistent reps are Leatherwood and Moehrig. The rest of our defensive picks are backups/developmental guys which is fine as they could develop but I don't see any of them really making a huge impact for us this year. At best Koonce is a rotational pass rusher and Gilepsie rotates in at safety but I'd imagine that Moehrig/Abram/Joseph get most of the reps. Debalo could play but I don't really see him beating out Kwit, Littleton, and Morrow for consistent reps. 

That’s because the overall depth of the team is much better than its been. Arden Key came in and played a bunch as a rookie  even though wasn’t ready. Meanwhile, Koonce who was drafted in the same round is looked at as a specialist. Same thing with a guy like Gillespie, he would have probably started as a rookie the past few seasons.

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Gillespie was my guy and Diablo #2 but I liked moehrig just questioned his speed. 

That was another thing: I also liked Gillespie because of his speed

[Darbsk]

4 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

1. He’s not the best tackler.

2. The thing that makes him special is the fact that he is a safety that can play man like a corner which is really good trait to have but that’s not really a skill set that he will be used for as a single high safety 

3. he himself said that he didn’t really play single high safety (which are completely different responsibilities than a split safety.

overall my thing is it’s more of a projection(which isn’t inherently bad but I don’t think it’s a good idea to get someone who specializes in some thing and then play him in a way that doesn’t emphasize the strengths. It’s actually why I think Solomon Thomas has a chance to be pretty good at 3T Because he wasn’t used that way since he’s been in the league)

all that being said I feel much better about it than I would’ve because Grant was gone before we picked and Moehrig wasn’t picked in the first round. He also has an off-season to make the transition 

All fair areas of concern, though with regard to tackling the one thing you can work on is technique, and though Moehrig isn't a great tackler it's not an issue of not wanting to tackle IMO which is not fixable. I think his football IQ and ability to reliably read the QB is perfect for playing a ball hawking role (which is why I liked Cisco so much). 

I have a little more belief that our current coaches will be able to improve these guys and put them in advantageous positions, I haven't really felt that before with Ken Norton, Paul Guenther and their recent predecessors.

I must be honest and say I hated the 'interchangeable' safety philosophy, I think you end up with 2 safeties who can't do anything particularly well. I'd much rather have a hammer and a ball hawk 😀

[Jeremy408]

3 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

All fair areas of concern, though with regard to tackling the one thing you can work on is technique, and though Moehrig isn't a great tackler it's not an issue of not wanting to tackle IMO which is not fixable. I think his football IQ and ability to reliably read the QB is perfect for playing a ball hawking role (which is why I liked Cisco so much). 

I have a little more belief that our current coaches will be able to improve these guys and put them in advantageous positions, I haven't really felt that before with Ken Norton, Paul Guenther and their recent predecessors.

I must be honest and say I hated the 'interchangeable' safety philosophy, I think you end up with 2 safeties who can't do anything particularly well. I'd much rather have a hammer and a ball hawk 😀

The thing about tackling though is that it's more of an area concern than it was maybe eight years ago because of the fact that teams don't really tackle in TC or practice anymore. So there's room to believe that his tackling doesn't necessarily get any better.

With the whole thing you said about his football IQ I don't disagree but but my issue there is that's not actually what got him rated so high as a safety; it's because he can play man coverage like a corner(which is something we're not gonna really use it for) and as a split safety(which were also not going to use him as).

What you said about the coaching staff I completely 100% agree with that. You can't get a linebackers coach or a coach that's never had a starter younger than 24 on any defense before our team and compare them to someone who has built two defenses from scratch to become top 10 defenses. 

I also very much agree with what you said about the interchangeable safety philosophy. I've always been about the box safety and the true free safety myself

[Turnobili]

Thread

 

[agarcia34]

Amik Robertson, Nevin Lawson and Keisean Nixon could also be in the mix in the slot — which is wide open — although word is that Bradley liked Robertson’s one-on-one coverage skills coming out of the draft and might think of him more as an outside corner.

[MrOaktown_56]

Abram talking up Hayward already. Hayward will help these guys install the system and get guys lined up.

Excited to see Abram as a pure box safety. There were a lot of games where he was flying around in the box. The Carolina game and Denver in year 1 come to mind. 

[Turnobili]

PFF has Kwiatkowski/Littleton as among the highest graded LB pairs lol

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-linebacker-rankings-entering-2021-nfl-season

both Yannick and Cle also cracked their top 32 edge players

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-edge-defender-rankings-the-32-best-players-entering-the-2021-nfl-season

Edited May 26, 2021 by Turnobili

[oakdb36]

14 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

PFF has Kwiatkowski/Littleton as among the highest graded LB pairs lol

 

It's not a grade. They gave Littleton a very low grade for 2020 but they take into account his level of play before that in this list.

Kwit just played well.

[raidr4life]

On 5/25/2021 at 6:55 AM, Jeremy408 said:

1. He’s not the best tackler.

2. The thing that makes him special is the fact that he is a safety that can play man like a corner which is really good trait to have but that’s not really a skill set that he will be used for as a single high safety 

3. he himself said that he didn’t really play single high safety (which are completely different responsibilities than a split safety.

overall my thing is it’s more of a projection(which isn’t inherently bad but I don’t think it’s a good idea to get someone who specializes in some thing and then play him in a way that doesn’t emphasize the strengths. It’s actually why I think Solomon Thomas has a chance to be pretty good at 3T Because he wasn’t used that way since he’s been in the league)

all that being said I feel much better about it than I would’ve because Grant was gone before we picked and Moehrig wasn’t picked in the first round. He also has an off-season to make the transition 

What single high is what he's known for.