Raiders Defense

[raidr4life]

23 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I think that has more to do with how well rookie DBs play when they miss camp and large chunks of their rookie year.  Conley looked like he had the talent to have a smooth transition even though he missed time but Obi really needed to be healthy all year to make an impact.  Our secondary will have some growing pains next year but overall will be much improved if those two come back ready to go at the beginning of the year.

I hope Conely mirrors William Jackson III who got injured year 1, but has been really good this year, I loved Jackson III, Conley wasn't even on my radar for us so we'll see.

[Rich7sena]

I was thinking if the Raiders see a player like Derwin James drop if they'd consider using a nickel-backer instead of a traditional nickel corner. I think both James and Joseph would thrive at that spot and I have always liked the potential of 3-safety looks.

[CaliforniaKid7]

25 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I was thinking if the Raiders see a player like Derwin James drop if they'd consider using a nickel-backer instead of a traditional nickel corner. I think both James and Joseph would thrive at that spot and I have always liked the potential of 3-safety looks.

If James is there when we pick (doubtful), you run to the podium, take him, and figure it out later. My favorite player in the draft.

[Rich7sena]

24 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

If James is there when we pick (doubtful), you run to the podium, take him, and figure it out later. My favorite player in the draft.

If the Raiders make thr playoffs then I doubt he’ll he there. That said, I project him to go later than anticipated. As a prospect, he’s sort of a more athletic and imposibg version of Jabrill Peppers who was similarly positionless.

[raidr4life]

3 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

If the Raiders make thr playoffs then I doubt he’ll he there. That said, I project him to go later than anticipated. As a prospect, he’s sort of a more athletic and imposibg version of Jabrill Peppers who was similarly positionless.

No Peppers was the best SS in the draft.

[NightTrainLane]

27 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

No Peppers was the best SS in the draft.

You maybe correct, that is still as yet to be seen, but he is referring to how many didn't pin Peppers to a single position til very late in the predraft process.

[Rich7sena]

2 hours ago, raidr4life said:

No Peppers was the best SS in the draft.

That wasn't consensus. Jamal Adams was universally rated high and went much earlier. Peppers (who I admittedly wasn't a big fan of) didn't play safety at Michigan, he played outside linebacker. NFL teams had to project him to a position they had no tape of him playing. The same will be true for Derwin James. 

[Chali21]

11 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

That wasn't consensus. Jamal Adams was universally rated high and went much earlier. Peppers (who I admittedly wasn't a big fan of) didn't play safety at Michigan, he played outside linebacker. NFL teams had to project him to a position they had no tape of him playing. The same will be true for Derwin James. 

I don’t think anyone knew where peppers would play, that’s what made him so polarizing. Some would think since he’s not great anywhere he might bust, but then others would just say that he wouldn’t because he’d be good everywhere. 

[Rich7sena]

1 hour ago, Chali21 said:

I don’t think anyone knew where peppers would play, that’s what made him so polarizing. Some would think since he’s not great anywhere he might bust, but then others would just say that he wouldn’t because he’d be good everywhere. 

And I think there wil be a similar debate around James. The difference with James is he’s a much more attractive athlete. He’ll surely remind some of Sean Taylor given his frame and athleticism. Minkah Fitzpatrick will also have the same problem. Everyone is calling him a safety but he doesn’t play safety at Alabama and it’s not a position you can just easily plug and play in the NFL.

College teams are increasingly putting their best athletes close to the line of scrimmage where they can make the biggest impact as blitzers, slot corners, and psuedo-linebackers. Unless more NFL teams adopt 3-safety/nickelbacker looks, these players will suffer come draft day.

[Darbsk]

After last nights game and a lot of negative thoughts I do feel reassured that we've identified where the crux of the problem was on defence. I've seen enough of John Pagano to think that he should be given at least next season to try and solve our defensive woes. This was his first big test and I thought they did admirably, he could do a lot better with an off-season to implement his entire system and some new additions.

We generated pressure through Mack/Irvin working in unison, lots of creative blitzing of especially Bowman who should be resigned and I felt Sean Smith played much, much better. Even Nelson and Joseph seemed to play better to me. There was a few cases of soft coverage but I think that may have been McDonald just playing too deep as it seemed out of keeping with what others were doing. I particularly liked us switching up the coverage on Kelce and we kept him relatively quiet.

I'd advocate for handing over the reigns completely to John Pagano sans Del Rio for the off season and next season and see what he can do - I see potential here!

[MrOaktown_56]

10 hours ago, Darbsk said:

After last nights game and a lot of negative thoughts I do feel reassured that we've identified where the crux of the problem was on defence. I've seen enough of John Pagano to think that he should be given at least next season to try and solve our defensive woes. This was his first big test and I thought they did admirably, he could do a lot better with an off-season to implement his entire system and some new additions.

We generated pressure through Mack/Irvin working in unison, lots of creative blitzing of especially Bowman who should be resigned and I felt Sean Smith played much, much better. Even Nelson and Joseph seemed to play better to me. There was a few cases of soft coverage but I think that may have been McDonald just playing too deep as it seemed out of keeping with what others were doing. I particularly liked us switching up the coverage on Kelce and we kept him relatively quiet.

I'd advocate for handing over the reigns completely to John Pagano sans Del Rio for the off season and next season and see what he can do - I see potential here!

Agreed. Pagano is doing very well. I think if we had anyone but Reggie Nelson at free safety and better corner play, this defense could look a lot better. Especially if we could add a little more interior talent.

[NightTrainLane]

 

35 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Agreed. Pagano is doing very well. I think if we had anyone but Reggie Nelson at free safety and better corner play, this defense could look a lot better. Especially if we could add a little more interior talent.

And look what we did in the draft... 1st rd CB, 2nd rd S and 3rd rd DT. Conley and Obi just haven't been on the field enough to make a difference. EV has been solid but still needs seasoning like most 3rd players do.

[Rich7sena]

I think the sacks were a bit of fools gold this week. From what I remember, Irvin's sacks came late in the play and Smith generally had time to throw all game. Someone who did pleasantly surprise me was Dexter McDonald. He's actually been pretty solid since he's received consistent playing time and he might be the second best healthy corner on the team after Carrie. Nelson is a big sore spot and I look forward to seeing Melifonwu replace him -- maybe even before the season is over *crosses fingers*. I just like to see him play his natural position for once. Luani is good depth but that's probably it.

[Silver&Black88]

On 12/8/2017 at 6:05 PM, Rich7sena said:

That wasn't consensus. Jamal Adams was universally rated high and went much earlier. Peppers (who I admittedly wasn't a big fan of) didn't play safety at Michigan, he played outside linebacker. NFL teams had to project him to a position they had no tape of him playing. The same will be true for Derwin James. 

Yeah really.  Not to be rude, but who in the blue hell had Peppers ahead of Adams?   Nothing taking anything away from Peppers because I like him...but c'mon now.

[NightTrainLane]

4 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

I think the sacks were a bit of fools gold this week. From what I remember, Irvin's sacks came late in the play and Smith generally had time to throw all game. Someone who did pleasantly surprise me was Dexter McDonald. He's actually been pretty solid since he's received consistent playing time and he might be the second best healthy corner on the team after Carrie. Nelson is a big sore spot and I look forward to seeing Melifonwu replace him -- maybe even before the season is over *crosses fingers*. I just like to see him play his natural position for once. Luani is good depth but that's probably it.

The sacks aren't fools gold. But they aren't total endorsements of the pass rushers. The coverage has just as much to do with it. But many front 7 guys don't make the plays even in those situations, so its a shared sack with the whole defense in those extended play sacks.