Raiders Defense

[MrOaktown_56]

If Autry continues to come on strong and doesn't be resigned, I"ll be pretty bummed. He's done enough to stick around as depth at the very least.

[Rich7sena]

3 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

If Autry continues to come on strong and doesn't be resigned, I"ll be pretty bummed. He's done enough to stick around as depth at the very least.

Between he and Ellis, give me Ellis. both are part time players but Ellis is more important to the defense's success. Rotational pass rushing DTs aren't the hardest to find and the team already has at least two players (Vanderdoes, Hester) who I believe can easily develop into Autry caliber players. I still think Ward has a chance to become a rotational player, too.

[Rolni]

It will be interesting how RM and his staff and the HC evaluates our Defensive players...

First we need to see who the HC and who the DC will be...I'm not 100% that JDR will be back and even if he is back I'm not 100% Pagano will be back.

There are some relatively easy calls IMO:

-Sean Smith cut 

-Let Reggie Nelson walk

-Re-sign TJ Carrie

Then there are some more complex questions and those can easily come down to the scheme we will run:

-Re-sign Justin Ellis

-Re-sign Denico Autry

-Re-sign Navarro Bowman

-cut David Amerson

-Make a final decision on Aldon Smith

-Re-sign Keith McGill as a ST player

 

While I would really like to see Jack Del Rio gone, right now I think he will stay at least one more season. I also think we will keep Pagano if he can continue to look solid in the remaining games, which won't be easy. With that said I really hope RM and his staff will shake up things a bit.

I think we need to cut Sean Smith, we need to let Reggie Nelson walk and we must re-sign Carrie, who is our best CB right now. Carrie could easily look at DA's or SS's deals as reference since he outplayed them, so it won't be a cheap re-sign.

I think Ellis, Autry and Bowman has a place with us in 2018 and maybe beyond, but only at the right price.

Ellis is a solid NT, so I would look at Abry Jones's or Earl Mitchell's deals at best. He only had this year and his rookie year as strong years, he needs to keep him weight in check and he needs motivation. I would be OK with him back around 4M a year. If he wants Stacy McGee's money or more, he can walk.

Autry is a really solid guy and he shows that he can be a 3-4-5 sack guy when healthy in a rotational role. With Vanderdoes and Hester performing relatively well, I can't see us giving Autry a bigger deal. If we think highly enough about these rookies we might not give Autry an offer at all. A 3-4M/year deal would be totally fine by me and after that we could cut Ward easily come TC in '18...After a Carrie and Ellis re-sign and a Mack extension we might just let Autry walk and hope in the developement of Eddie and Hester (and Ward).

Bowman could stick around, but I can't see a big payday for him. Ideally he stays for another year to let Lee develope. His asking price could still be around 4-5M which might be too much after the mentioned Carrie, Ellis re-sign and Mack extension...If RM don't want to invest high draft pick into LB, he might need Bowman back badly, so he could really stick IMO.

Amerson has no guarantees left, so he could stay as long as we need him. I mean he could stay till TC and the staff can see how he performs in a new scheme, new role or he could stay till the draft, where we get a new CB maybe, or till we don't need "his" salary cap elsewhere. He could be out if we need the money for Bowman or Ellis real quick IMO. I think I would rather have Ellis and Bowman back without Amerson then Amerson with one of them...

If Aldon doesn't get reinstated early 2018 we need to let him go IMO.

McGill could stick as a ST guy and as an emergency option behind Karl, Obi and Luani...then again with his low deal, he could be a TC casualty if we find a better rookie, UDFA guy...

 

I would like to see us moveing toward a more traditional 3-4 as base (with Pagano or with the new DC).

I think the Mack-Irvin duo could be a really solid one for at least one more year, and their best usage in the base would be rush OLB IMO.

I think the Edwards-Ellis-Vanderdoes base line could be a solid one. Hester could be a nice rotational guy at DE and maybe Ward can become one with another full offseason. Autry could stick here or a new rookie could be added. Latham needs to show something in these last games to stick IMO, if he can't impress the staff we need a strong DL player to help against the run behind Ellis IMO.

I think the Bowman-James duo could be a solid solution at ILB, with Lee and Morrow behind them. Obviously we should bring in new bodies to compete every year at this position, but I think lately the LB spot is not our biggest problem anymore. With the Bowman addition and with James getting better we are close to average at this position. James, Lee and Morrow can still make big steps with an offseason, especially with Bowman around.

I want us to use Obi and Luani more and more in Nelson's place, since they are the future not Reggie. Ideally Obi can form a good duo with Karl and Luani can be a good 3rd S for us. McGill or a new guy could be the needed depth and ST player.

At CB we need some retool IMO. I would keep Carrie as our slot CB and we should be good with Conley at CB1 or CB2. We need a new boundary CB across Conley, since I would not count on a rebound season from Amerson. McDonald, Hamilton and some rookies could battle out the depth spots. The question with the outside CB spot is to get a veteran via FA or get a high rounder rookie again. This upcoming CB FA class looks pretty thin, so I would go with a rookie. With this FA class, we might keep Amerson and his 6M on board at least till the draft.

 

LDE: Edwards
NT:Ellis
RDE: Vanderdoes

LOLB: Mack
LILB: Bowman
RILB: James
ROLB: Irvin

CB: Conley
NCB: Carrie
S: Joseph
S: Melifonwu
CB: Amerson/rookie/FA

Could be a pretty young, but fast, athletic defense IMO. With a solid DC this D should be a solid, middle of the pack unit at least IMO, which could be just enough if a new OC fixes our offense.

[Rich7sena]

2 hours ago, Rolni said:

-Re-sign Justin Ellis

-Re-sign Denico Autry

Re-signing both Ellis and Autry would be out of character for RM. Heck, even signing one would be out of character. Since he's been GM, RM has let Benson Mayowa, Stacy McGee, Dan Williams, and Shelby Harris walk. If you're not a difference maker on the defensive line, you're on the conveyor belt. If one were to were re-sign, I'd put my money on Ellis. He's been the most consistent interior defensive lineman on the team over the last 4 seasons.

 

[Rolni]

19 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Re-signing both Ellis and Autry would be out of character for RM. Heck, even signing one would be out of character. Since he's been GM, RM has let Benson Mayowa, Stacy McGee, Dan Williams, and Shelby Harris walk. If you're not a difference maker on the defensive line, you're on the conveyor belt. If one were to were re-sign, I'd put my money on Ellis. He's been the most consistent interior defensive lineman on the team over the last 4 seasons.

 

Dan Williams was a Reggie FA pick up, who got cut because he underperformed...can't see how he is in this conversation at all.

Ellis and Autry did morenthen the others you mentioned, however I get what you say, that was the reason I didn't put their resigning in the "sure" collum.

I also said that the Autry resign is far from a sure thing, since we have Eddie and Hester, but I could see a scenario where we keep them.

[NightTrainLane]

Quote

I still feel like I can play this game at a high level. I feel like I can average 10 tackles a game. I don’t see why they wouldn’t sign me back. I’d love to stay. I like the area. I like the team and the organization. Hopefully we can make it happen.

This is a quote from Bowman this week. I hope he can stay on and help this young group.

[Rich7sena]

15 hours ago, Rolni said:

Dan Williams was a Reggie FA pick up, who got cut because he underperformed...can't see how he is in this conversation at all.

Ellis and Autry did morenthen the others you mentioned, however I get what you say, that was the reason I didn't put their resigning in the "sure" collum.

I also said that the Autry resign is far from a sure thing, since we have Eddie and Hester, but I could see a scenario where we keep them.

I included Dan Williams to illustrate how the team easily moves on from non-essential players on the interior defensive line. What does "did more" mean? McGee got a 5 year $25 million deal this offseason because he was the Raiders' best defensive lineman a year ago. Autry, who is on the team purely for his pass rush ability, has amassed 3, 2.5, and 3 sacks over the past 3 seasons. Ellis, who is purely a rotational player, got his first sniff at a sack this year bringing his career total to .5 (not that he's a pass rusher). The Raiders can easily draft another Ellis and Autry in rounds 4-7 every year.

[raidr4life]

5 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

I included Dan Williams to illustrate how the team easily moves on from non-essential players on the interior defensive line. What does "did more" mean? McGee got a 5 year $25 million deal this offseason because he was the Raiders' best defensive lineman a year ago. Autry, who is on the team purely for his pass rush ability, has amassed 3, 2.5, and 3 sacks over the past 3 seasons. Ellis, who is purely a rotational player, got his first sniff at a sack this year bringing his career total to .5 (not that he's a pass rusher). The Raiders can easily draft another Ellis and Autry in rounds 4-7 every year.

We easily drafted Ward and Vanderdoes,  Latham and Hester, so no drafting another Ellis or Autry won' be that easy.

[Humble_Beast]

Still don’t know why Reggie let Shelby Harris McGee mayowa walk while paying sean smith dan Williams who were easy cuts 

[Dessie]

5 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

Still don’t know why Reggie let Shelby Harris McGee mayowa walk while paying sean smith dan Williams who were easy cuts 

Like you were complaining about these guys being let go at the time. 

[NightTrainLane]

3 hours ago, raidr4life said:

We easily drafted Ward and Vanderdoes,  Latham and Hester, so no drafting another Ellis or Autry won' be that easy.

And whats to say Whats to say Vandy and Hestor won't be just say productive or more than Autry and Ellis. Neither of those curren vets were very impressive as rookies. In fact, I think Hestor has had shown the most ceiling raising play in his first year than all 4.

[Rich7sena]

3 hours ago, Dessie said:

Like you were complaining about these guys being let go at the time. 

I don't know about @Humble_Beast, but I didn't want to see McGee walk. Still, it's become part of Reggie's M.O. to let guys walk he thinks are easily replaceable by the current depth chart or through the draft. It's likely both Ellis and Autry can command more in the open market than in Oakland.

[Darbsk]

On 01/12/2017 at 1:36 PM, Rolni said:

I would like to see us moveing toward a more traditional 3-4 as base (with Pagano or with the new DC).

I think the Mack-Irvin duo could be a really solid one for at least one more year, and their best usage in the base would be rush OLB IMO.

I think the Edwards-Ellis-Vanderdoes base line could be a solid one. Hester could be a nice rotational guy at DE and maybe Ward can become one with another full offseason. Autry could stick here or a new rookie could be added. Latham needs to show something in these last games to stick IMO, if he can't impress the staff we need a strong DL player to help against the run behind Ellis IMO.

I think the Bowman-James duo could be a solid solution at ILB, with Lee and Morrow behind them. Obviously we should bring in new bodies to compete every year at this position, but I think lately the LB spot is not our biggest problem anymore. With the Bowman addition and with James getting better we are close to average at this position. James, Lee and Morrow can still make big steps with an offseason, especially with Bowman around.

I want us to use Obi and Luani more and more in Nelson's place, since they are the future not Reggie. Ideally Obi can form a good duo with Karl and Luani can be a good 3rd S for us. McGill or a new guy could be the needed depth and ST player.

At CB we need some retool IMO. I would keep Carrie as our slot CB and we should be good with Conley at CB1 or CB2. We need a new boundary CB across Conley, since I would not count on a rebound season from Amerson. McDonald, Hamilton and some rookies could battle out the depth spots. The question with the outside CB spot is to get a veteran via FA or get a high rounder rookie again. This upcoming CB FA class looks pretty thin, so I would go with a rookie. With this FA class, we might keep Amerson and his 6M on board at least till the draft.

 

LDE: Edwards
NT:Ellis
RDE: Vanderdoes

LOLB: Mack
LILB: Bowman
RILB: James
ROLB: Irvin

CB: Conley
NCB: Carrie
S: Joseph
S: Melifonwu
CB: Amerson/rookie/FA

Could be a pretty young, but fast, athletic defense IMO. With a solid DC this D should be a solid, middle of the pack unit at least IMO, which could be just enough if a new OC fixes our offense.

I would agree with this, however, it may be a long shot with JDR still holding the tiller. If we were to let Pagano take control then IMO we should be looking at drafting a rotation pass rusher at OLB to eventually take over from Irvin and to spell Irvin and Mack with Cowser. I'd like to think we'd keep Amerson as I think he'll play better with better coaching in a more aggressive scheme but I think we'll also look to draft a CB quite high too. I'd keep Ellis but wouldn't be afraid to let Autry go though I do like him and he loves playing for the Raiders too.

[Dessie]

3 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

I don't know about @Humble_Beast, but I didn't want to see McGee walk. Still, it's become part of Reggie's M.O. to let guys walk he thinks are easily replaceable by the current depth chart or through the draft. It's likely both Ellis and Autry can command more in the open market than in Oakland.

Nobody was saying we should have kept McGee when they saw what the Redskins were paying him.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Dessie said:

Nobody was saying we should have kept McGee when they saw what the Redskins were paying him.

Exactly. And he's not exactly earning that payday either. 34 tackles, no sacks.