Darbsk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 9 hours ago, Rich7sena said: I think the sacks were a bit of fools gold this week. From what I remember, Irvin's sacks came late in the play and Smith generally had time to throw all game. Someone who did pleasantly surprise me was Dexter McDonald. He's actually been pretty solid since he's received consistent playing time and he might be the second best healthy corner on the team after Carrie. Nelson is a big sore spot and I look forward to seeing Melifonwu replace him -- maybe even before the season is over *crosses fingers*. I just like to see him play his natural position for once. Luani is good depth but that's probably it. Sorry, I just can't agree here. I thought Irvin's first sack was good coverage and just not giving up on the play, his second was great pressure by Vanderdoes up the middle and Irvin clearing up with Edwards right there too, Mack's was great first step through the OL and staying disciplined and not biting on the misdirection, The Bowman sack was I think the worst from a QB perspective and holding the ball but again, a little credit to the coverage. The Joseph interception was pressure up the middle again from a Bowman blitz. I think Mack has had a sack in 4 consecutive games and Irvin has a sack in 3 consecutive games so something is clearly working that wasn't previously and while we have to put it in context that Denver and the Giants were very poor offences with backup QBs we struggled even against poor offences early. Although McDonald has been very solid, he was awful on Sunday, very passive in everything he did. A guy that just gets no credit is Sean Smith who's played very well the last few weeks and particularly well against the Chiefs. I might be the only one remaining but still think he's a good CB if we play to his strengths, his press was very effective. That's not to say he is worth his current pay as he's clearly not, I'd retain him if we can restructure his contract to a reasonable level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolni Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 So far I like what Pagano is doing...if JDR gets another year I would be OK with Pagano as the DC. The pass rush is working better, we need a serious retool in the secondary and could field a solid D come September... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Darbsk said: I might be the only one remaining but still think he's a good CB if we play to his strengths, his press was very effective. That's not to say he is worth his current pay as he's clearly not, I'd retain him if we can restructure his contract to a reasonable level. But I doubt SS is gonna be willing to take the appropriate pay cut. Realistically we'd ask him to cut 3-4 mil to make him worth keeping around and I doubt he does that. I don't see him as a starter anymore if he can only play one way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 38 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: But I doubt SS is gonna be willing to take the appropriate pay cut. Realistically we'd ask him to cut 3-4 mil to make him worth keeping around and I doubt he does that. I don't see him as a starter anymore if he can only play one way. I see your point and I wouldn't want to take a pay cut like that either, but I don't think he'll have much choice if he wants to continue his NFL career at any relevancy. No-one is going to be giving him his desired #1 CB money after this season or not anywhere near the amount he currently gets so he has a couple options - restructure with a team and coach he knows and seems to be playing better with and maybe get another 2 year dealand still be making $5m or get cut outright with little to no compensation and hope someone will take a chance on a 31 yr old CB who's system specific and has just had what many perceive to be a bad year......... Obviously, if he doesn't restructure I'd cut him outright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Darbsk said: I see your point and I wouldn't want to take a pay cut like that either, but I don't think he'll have much choice if he wants to continue his NFL career at any relevancy. No-one is going to be giving him his desired #1 CB money after this season or not anywhere near the amount he currently gets so he has a couple options - restructure with a team and coach he knows and seems to be playing better with and maybe get another 2 year dealand still be making $5m or get cut outright with little to no compensation and hope someone will take a chance on a 31 yr old CB who's system specific and has just had what many perceive to be a bad year......... Obviously, if he doesn't restructure I'd cut him outright. I think he accepts the release and shops him self around before that because I think Reggie will play hard ball knowing he is in a corner and pride will take over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Sean Smith ain't taking no pay cut. Especially if he continue to play well under Pagano. He can just scapegoat Norton scheme for his bad play. He definitely will just take the cut, take his guaranteed money and hit fa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I wouldn't want Smith back even with a restructure. He limits what the defense can do coverage wise because he's always going to need explicit help over the top. I'd rather give his playing time to McDonald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 The Raiders defense is S L O W.... that is a big issue. There is no team speed. Move on from Smith, Bowman and Nelson. I know some say keep Bowman, but it's more of the same. Trying to fill a hole with an aging, slow player. He's not part of a solution, and spare the stopgap narrative. The Raiders have needed to get faster on defense for years now. Keeping guys like Bowman just prolong the pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Also... McDonald. This guys is AWFUL too. Shouldn't be on an NFL. It's amazing how little we expect out of players on this team. This is why they are perennial garbage. Expecting horrible talent to be "average" on their best days. Ala Carrie. Average on his best days.... so let's keep him around. No thanks! The only CB worth keeping is Conley. The rest should all be cur Time to start trying to hold this together with bad players. There are maybe 3-4 defensive players that shouldn't be replaced on this roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Also... McDonald. This guys is AWFUL too. Shouldn't be on an NFL. It's amazing how little we expect out of players on this team. This is why they are perennial garbage. Expecting horrible talent to be "average" on their best days. Ala Carrie. Average on his best days.... so let's keep him around. No thanks! The only CB worth keeping is Conley. The rest should all be cur Time to start trying to hold this together with bad players. There are maybe 3-4 defensive players that shouldn't be replaced on this roster. And since that is completely unrealistic and alarmist, we'll keep McDonald and hopefully Carrie. Edited December 12, 2017 by NightTrainLane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: The Raiders defense is S L O W.... that is a big issue. There is no team speed. Move on from Smith, Bowman and Nelson. I know some say keep Bowman, but it's more of the same. Trying to fill a hole with an aging, slow player. He's not part of a solution, and spare the stopgap narrative. The Raiders have needed to get faster on defense for years now. Keeping guys like Bowman just prolong the pain. I agree 100% except for Bowman. He is not the fastest but I will take a slower player that does not take missteps over a fast player that does not know their assignment. Smith and Nelson are slow but make a lot of mistakes. Bowman increases the team speed by knowing were everyone should be and decreasing mistakes across the entire D. We will be much faster next year just by getting our top picks on the field but if we do not have a player with the green dot that knows what is going on and can correct others it will not matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said: And since that is completely unrealistic and alarmist, we'll keep McDonald and hopefully Carrie. Why are you so literal all they time? I'm not suggesting only retaining those 3-4 players. I'm saying that is the number of players you can count on the defensive roster. The rest can be beaten out. The CBs are so so bad. Carrie is a FA and not worth resigning. McDonald can be cut eventually, but he's under contract so he'll stick around for now obviously. Neither of those guys should be on this roster if your serious about the secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Why are you so literal all they time? I'm not suggesting only retaining those 3-4 players. I'm saying that is the number of players you can count on the defensive roster. The rest can be beaten out. The CBs are so so bad. Carrie is a FA and not worth resigning. McDonald can be cut eventually, but he's under contract so he'll stick around for now obviously. Neither of those guys should be on this roster if your serious about the secondary. Next year CB: Amerson - 4.44, Conley - 4.44, TJ Carrie (Slot) - 4.4? (played much better in the slot) S: Joseph - under 4.5?, Melifonwu - 4.40, Luani - 4.55 That is plenty of speed if we can get these guys ready. One of the most important aspects for me is to see if we can keep getting sacks in the last few weeks. With Norton as DC we had 14 in ten games. We have had 12 in the last three games with Pagano. If we can keep up the pressure then that shows one major aspect of the defense was flawed most likely because of coaching and we have some talent. Edited December 12, 2017 by drfrey13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: I agree 100% except for Bowman. He is not the fastest but I will take a slower player that does not take missteps over a fast player that does not know their assignment. Smith and Nelson are slow but make a lot of mistakes. Bowman increases the team speed by knowing were everyone should be and decreasing mistakes across the entire D. We will be much faster next year just by getting our top picks on the field but if we do not have a player with the green dot that knows what is going on and can correct others it will not matter. I know that's the sentiment among Raider fans with Bowman. I'm the minority, but I'm tired of this ho hum approach. Bowman's best football is behind him and I'm sick of the Raiders relying on that crap because Reggie doesn't want to draft or sign a quality MLB or FS. He's been trying to fill the MLB and secondary spots with these aging vets for years to no avail. Can Bowman be an average MLB, sure. But do we want to be consistently average or actually upgrade the roster? The less Bowman's, Nelson's, Smith's of the world the better IMO. The teams winning in this league are not making these run of the mills signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I know that's the sentiment among Raider fans with Bowman. I'm the minority, but I'm tired of this ho hum approach. Bowman's best football is behind him and I'm sick of the Raiders relying on that crap because Reggie doesn't want to draft or sign a quality MLB or FS. He's been trying to fill the MLB and secondary spots with these aging vets for years to no avail. Can Bowman be an average MLB, sure. But do we want to be consistently average or actually upgrade the roster? The less Bowman's, Nelson's, Smith's of the world the better IMO. The teams winning in this league are not making these run of the mills signings. I’m with you on Bowman he’s been a very good stop gap much like Riley was last year, doubt Reggie will want to spend much to bring him back though. Smith was a good pickup at the time and there wasn’t many questioning Reggie when we picked him up. He’s done a decent job in recent times but the drafting of Conley was always as his long term replacement imo. Rather resign Carrie who has been solid this year. Not sure you would have called Smith a run of the mill signing at the time. Nelson was another stopgap signing and the pickups of Joseph and Obi were a recognition of that. Let’s not forget that Reggie is still building the roster, last years good season seems to have clouded peoples memory of that. Edited December 12, 2017 by Dessie spelling error 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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