Pick is in, #4 Clelin Ferrell DE Clemson

[holyghost]

36 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I said this from the very beginning that our defense was so bad that we had to focus on just one aspect  this year and build out from there.  They decided to focus on run defense.  Ferrell and Mauro play a big part in that and also focusing on gap discipline is key.  I think some of the stuff you touched on is why they choose Ferrell over Allen.  Also why we grabbed Burfict. Another major part of our success on defense is the offense is sustaining drives and letting the D rest.  As a whole we have a better understanding of the schemes, which helps to play when you do not have to think, and we have become a better team with more talent.  It is a smart way to build and keeps our trajectory moving in a positive direction.

Totally agree, though I have minor issues with a couple things you said. Maybe they were written incorrectly or I am misinterpreting. "Success on defense" is not accurate. The pass defense is historically bad, right now. The run defense has been great, and it is specifically the part of defense in which Ferrell has been heavily tasked. Also, I have read many times in past years about the players having better understanding of schemes. And yet it never translated to a better run defense. This team's run D has flashed in and out of sheer incompetence for decades now. This is the best it has been in a long time.

[Rich7sena]

4 hours ago, holyghost said:

Can anyone tell me why the run defense is markedly better than last year? From what I can tell, the only substantive change in the run defenders (front 7) is Ferrell. Other potential run defending changes are guys who are now gone - Abram, Burfict.. The scheme is the same, and the starters on the DL are basically the same. Switching Key for a Crosby/Key combo. Ferrell is the only major shift here.

Now I get that we all can tell he's not going to be a pass rushing demon. Maybe functional, possibly good, never Mack. 

It's a widely overblown idea that you can just draft good run defenders in later rounds because they are one dimensional. Maybe, yeah. But just because you draft a one dimensional guy in the 4th, it does not mean that he is even going to be spectacular at that dimension in the NFL. He might just end up being good at it. And being good at something in the NFL literally means 8-8, 16th ranked, middle of the pack. To draft anyone to play any role and be MARKEDLY better than the player they are replacing, is very difficult and the entire challenge. See Jacobs as an example of that, and how that can positively affect your team. Barring any other reason anyone can think of, Ferrell is doing that for our run defense and the physicality of our defensive line.

Last year Hurst, Hall, Hankins were all here. Our run D was trash. Even with Mack our run defense was mostly trash. Has it occurred to anyone Ferrell is actually unselfish in his play, smart, and very effective at not only run defending but elevating the players around him as well. One small negative on Mack, he didn't elevate the play of anyone. An amazing player, but still on a terrible D. He shines with great talent around him. By all appearances, Ferrell is making the players around him much better and losing personal stats over it.

This post is nonsense. Ferrell has not drastically improved the run defense and players aren't eating off his place.

In fact, Ferrell has also been a liability as a run defender so far in the NFL. He struggles to beat his man to make plays in the backfield and he's been getting pushed off the ball by tight ends.

And none of my critiques have anything to do with him being as good as Mack. In fact, my critiques have little to do with him being generally ineffective so far. My biggest critique is 1) Josh Allen, the player supposedly not a scheme fit and only a pass rusher, has predictably shown to be a better pass rusher and run defender than Ferrell in the NFL, and 2) Ferrell has shown little in terms of desirable long-term projectable traits. This is a #4 overall pick and he didn't look like it in college, and he sure doesn't look like it so far in the NFL.

[holyghost]

12 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

This post is nonsense. Ferrell has not drastically improved the run defense and players aren't eating off his place.

In fact, Ferrell has also been a liability as a run defender so far in the NFL. He struggles to beat his man to make plays in the backfield and he's been getting pushed off the ball by tight ends.

And none of my critiques have anything to do with him being as good as Mack. In fact, my critiques have little to do with him being generally ineffective so far. My biggest critique is 1) Josh Allen, the player supposedly not a scheme fit and only a pass rusher, has predictably shown to be a better pass rusher and run defender than Ferrell in the NFL, and 2) Ferrell has shown little in terms of desirable long-term projectable traits. This is a #4 overall pick and he didn't look like it in college, and he sure doesn't look like it so far in the NFL.

He's the only major change. Your subtstantiated reasoning (with any basis) for the drastic improvement? 

My opinion. At the very least I am neither a Ferrell fan, nor biased. I can hear your bias against this guy through your computer screen.

[oakdb36]

I don't think Ferrell has made the run D good on his own and i don't think he's a liability either. If he was really a liability, and with how many snaps he has played so far, our run D wouldn't be doing that good. The improvement is also due to Josh Mauro. Hankins and Hall are playing good vs the run. The LBs (Burfict and Whitehead) are doing a better job putting players in position. It's a team effort and discipline in their assignments is much better.

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

This post is nonsense. Ferrell has not drastically improved the run defense and players aren't eating off his place.

In fact, Ferrell has also been a liability as a run defender so far in the NFL. He struggles to beat his man to make plays in the backfield and he's been getting pushed off the ball by tight ends.

And none of my critiques have anything to do with him being as good as Mack. In fact, my critiques have little to do with him being generally ineffective so far. My biggest critique is 1) Josh Allen, the player supposedly not a scheme fit and only a pass rusher, has predictably shown to be a better pass rusher and run defender than Ferrell in the NFL, and 2) Ferrell has shown little in terms of desirable long-term projectable traits. This is a #4 overall pick and he didn't look like it in college, and he sure doesn't look like it so far in the NFL.

This applies to your guy super athlete Rashan Gary super too right?

[Humble_Beast]

Bosa is such a beast 

[big_palooka]

11 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

Bosa is such a beast 

Not what you were saying pre draft. You flip easier than my Sunday morning pancakes.

[Rich7sena]

5 hours ago, holyghost said:

He's the only major change. Your subtstantiated reasoning (with any basis) for the drastic improvement? 

My opinion. At the very least I am neither a Ferrell fan, nor biased. I can hear your bias against this guy through your computer screen.

First, I don't think the run defense has drastically improved but it has been better in some games and not better in others.  Second, watching the games makes it evidence that Ferrell isn't the reason the run game is better. P.J. Hall has been the single most improved player from a year ago and he has been impactful in resetting the line of scrimmage which makes it harder for backs to gain traction against the defense. The linebackers, especially Morrow, have also played faster. But Ferrell has been no better than Frostee Rucker as a defensive end against the run. Honestly, he's probably been worse. Lastly, how do you figure Ferrell contributes so much to the run defense when the Raiders' best showing on run defense was against Chicago--a game where he did not play.

[Rich7sena]

6 hours ago, raidr4life said:

This applies to your guy super athlete Rashan Gary super too right?

Does what apply? I'd still rather have Gary than Ferrell. At least with Gary it was known it would take time for him to be a regular contributor and he has flashed his talent here and there--especially against the Raiders. But the real issue I have is taking Ferrell over Allen.

[FloydFan]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Does what apply? I'd still rather have Gary than Ferrell. At least with Gary it was known it would take time for him to be a regular contributor and he has flashed his talent here and there--especially against the Raiders. But the real issue I have is taking Ferrell over Allen.

You act like Ferrell hasn't flashed any at all. He had some good plays today. Was he over drafted, yeah I guess so if we are going to throw that moniker on someone week 8 in their career.  Gary is hot trash also. You get caught up too much in physical traits ala Obi. 

[Rich7sena]

9 hours ago, FloydFan said:

You act like Ferrell hasn't flashed any at all. He had some good plays today. Was he over drafted, yeah I guess so if we are going to throw that moniker on someone week 8 in their career.  Gary is hot trash also. You get caught up too much in physical traits ala Obi. 

Yesterday was Ferrell's best game, but I still wouldn't call it a good game from him. Also, what moniker am I throwing at him? I haven't called him a bust.

Gary has barely played so you or I can't really give an honest evaluation to how he's been. I have seen him flash more in significantly less snaps than Ferrell, though. And, not that sack production is the end-all, but he also has two sacks to Ferrell's one despite the disparity in snap count.

And, no, I didn't get caught up in Obi's physical traits; I got caught up in how he plays. But thanks for being a fan.

[drfrey13]

23 hours ago, holyghost said:

Totally agree, though I have minor issues with a couple things you said. Maybe they were written incorrectly or I am misinterpreting. "Success on defense" is not accurate. The pass defense is historically bad, right now. The run defense has been great, and it is specifically the part of defense in which Ferrell has been heavily tasked. Also, I have read many times in past years about the players having better understanding of schemes. And yet it never translated to a better run defense. This team's run D has flashed in and out of sheer incompetence for decades now. This is the best it has been in a long time.

I was referring to when we are successful on defense those are the reasons why but not that we are overall a successful defense.  We are definately better than we were last year on defense but the improvements have taken place because of the offense maintaining drives and making the opposing D more predictable to go along with an improved run defense.  Our pass D and pass rush is still awful.

[MrOaktown_56]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I was referring to when we are successful on defense those are the reasons why but not that we are overall a successful defense.  We are definately better than we were last year on defense but the improvements have taken place because of the offense maintaining drives and making the opposing D more predictable to go along with an improved run defense.  Our pass D and pass rush is still awful.

Yeah, it's just not there yet. We have the $$$ and picks to potentially get it done. We NEED to sign an impact edge rusher and get faster at LB. Robert Quinn has been resurgent. He's another guy to look into.

[Devilshark69]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 4:45 PM, big_palooka said:

Not what you were saying pre draft. You flip easier than my Sunday morning pancakes.

I about fell outta my chair! lmao!

[Jerry]

On 10/27/2019 at 3:45 PM, big_palooka said:

Not what you were saying pre draft. You flip easier than my Sunday morning pancakes.

Sharpest dagger I've seen on the forum.  Most cut throat clap back on the internet.