Duffman57 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 55 minutes ago, Ozzy said: That is crazy! Wirfs should be the 1st OT taken in the draft and will most likely go to New York and be a Giant. He is the superior athlete to Andrew Thomas and Wirfs played the bowl game unlike Thomas and has a higher upside as well and has been playing better of late. Last game out, Thomas against Chaisson was not good, got beat a few times, surprised he is sitting out the bowl honestly. Wirfs has matched his great athletic ability with his play this year, one of the most talented OT prospects in quite some time and one of the best athletes to play that position in awhile. Will be curious what he runs and how much he benches. Kid is a freak show! Wirfs reminds me a lot of what Trent Williams is now. Guy is a freakshow. But I think his steps will take a bit longer than Thomas. I think they're both elite OT's in the making, and same goes for Willis. Honestly all 3 are insanely good, and it's a matter of scheme and best fit as to who you want on your team, which is honestly splitting hairs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 28 minutes ago, Duffman57 said: Wirfs reminds me a lot of what Trent Williams is now. Guy is a freakshow. But I think his steps will take a bit longer than Thomas. I think they're both elite OT's in the making, and same goes for Willis. Honestly all 3 are insanely good, and it's a matter of scheme and best fit as to who you want on your team, which is honestly splitting hairs. It's a good class, definitely the best in a while. You've got the three guys at the top a d probably a couple more first round talents (Becton I really like) and then a whole bunch of development guys and low-end starter types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 38 minutes ago, Duffman57 said: Wirfs reminds me a lot of what Trent Williams is now. Guy is a freakshow. But I think his steps will take a bit longer than Thomas. I think they're both elite OT's in the making, and same goes for Willis. Honestly all 3 are insanely good, and it's a matter of scheme and best fit as to who you want on your team, which is honestly splitting hairs. Wirfs is superior athletically every which way compared to Andrew Thomas. Wirfs is better in pass pro, has better mobility and is stronger physically with a wider thicker base. Wirfs can do things athletically no OT can do honestly in this class. Not to mention on the field especially recently, Wirfs has been better than Thomas I feel. After the combine is done this should not really be a question at all. Wirfs has apparently allowed just 2 sacks, 2 QB hits, and 3 QB hurries) this year in 735 snaps. I believe those stats do not include the bowl game however. Maybe it is just me but Andrew Thomas has disappointed this season with how he has played, and skipping the bowl game does not help his cause either. Still a 1st rounder but yeah give me Wirfs long term over Thomas all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffman57 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, goldfishwars said: It's a good class, definitely the best in a while. You've got the three guys at the top a d probably a couple more first round talents (Becton I really like) and then a whole bunch of development guys and low-end starter types. Yeah, the OL coaching in college is starting to get better, not nearly there yet, but really well. I think there's a lot of starting level players in this class. A lot of people are calling it top heavy, but I think there's pretty good depth to it and a lot of guys who are solid that have a chance to be very good like Throckmorton, Cleveland, Charles from LSU, Alerick Jackson (if they leave), Charlie Heck, Ben Bartch, Eichburgh (though I'm not sure he's an OT) among many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, Duffman57 said: Yeah, the OL coaching in college is starting to get better, not nearly there yet, but really well. I think there's a lot of starting level players in this class. A lot of people are calling it top heavy, but I think there's pretty good depth to it and a lot of guys who are solid that have a chance to be very good like Throckmorton, Cleveland, Charles from LSU, Alerick Jackson (if they leave), Charlie Heck, Ben Bartch, Eichburgh (though I'm not sure he's an OT) among many others. Eichenberg on Notre Dame is returning to school. Honestly if one wants a quality player OT, OG or C they better be taken early 1st or 2nd round because they will go fast and they will be gone. There is a huge drop after the top 3 or 4 OTs and OG arguably not one is a 1st rounder but will see. Isiah Wilson is a developmental guy, so is Cleveland and Niang, not to mention Austin Jackson but hopefully he returns to school he got killed by AJ. Josh Jones is pretty raw also and Alaric Jackson I think he might move to OG but has potential. Throckmorton I am not sure he is as good as his teammate Shane Lemieux. Heck I like but he is a late round pick, Charles I think returns to school at LSU because he has sucked at times this year. Leatherwood is good as a OT/OG and Trey Smith as well but he does have some major health issues potentially. Runyan could be an ok starter, Deonte Brown could be an elite guard if he comes out and Jonah Jackson honestly if Trey Smith returns to school he could be the best OG in the class. Tommy Kraemer is a good player but might stay in school. Marcus Keyes, Logan Stenberg and Bredeson are good guards, John Simpson has high level athletic ability and Damien Lewis/Steven Gonzalez might be ok guards in the league but none of them are super high level. Creed Humphrey I think returns to school but will see. Not totally sold on all those Auburn guys, Tega Wanogho, Horton and Harrell etc. Still one should get them early because the elite ones will be gone fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 16 hours ago, Duffman57 said: Yeah, the OL coaching in college is starting to get better, not nearly there yet, but really well. I think there's a lot of starting level players in this class. A lot of people are calling it top heavy, but I think there's pretty good depth to it and a lot of guys who are solid that have a chance to be very good like Throckmorton, Cleveland, Charles from LSU, Alerick Jackson (if they leave), Charlie Heck, Ben Bartch, Eichburgh (though I'm not sure he's an OT) among many others. Yeah agreed, there's a couple of guys in the Senior Bowl I'm interested to get a closer look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 I love this draft considering the Cards need a RT in the worst way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, DirtyDez said: I love this draft considering the Cards need a RT in the worst way. Think Kliff and co. pass on Ceedee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffman57 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 17 hours ago, Ozzy said: Eichenberg on Notre Dame is returning to school. Honestly if one wants a quality player OT, OG or C they better be taken early 1st or 2nd round because they will go fast and they will be gone. There is a huge drop after the top 3 or 4 OTs and OG arguably not one is a 1st rounder but will see. Isiah Wilson is a developmental guy, so is Cleveland and Niang, not to mention Austin Jackson but hopefully he returns to school he got killed by AJ. Josh Jones is pretty raw also and Alaric Jackson I think he might move to OG but has potential. Throckmorton I am not sure he is as good as his teammate Shane Lemieux. Heck I like but he is a late round pick, Charles I think returns to school at LSU because he has sucked at times this year. Leatherwood is good as a OT/OG and Trey Smith as well but he does have some major health issues potentially. Runyan could be an ok starter, Deonte Brown could be an elite guard if he comes out and Jonah Jackson honestly if Trey Smith returns to school he could be the best OG in the class. Tommy Kraemer is a good player but might stay in school. Marcus Keyes, Logan Stenberg and Bredeson are good guards, John Simpson has high level athletic ability and Damien Lewis/Steven Gonzalez might be ok guards in the league but none of them are super high level. Creed Humphrey I think returns to school but will see. Not totally sold on all those Auburn guys, Tega Wanogho, Horton and Harrell etc. Still one should get them early because the elite ones will be gone fast. I just don't cosign that Wirfs is that much better than Thomas. Go back and watch Thomas some more and try to find the faults in his game going back and watching vs Ark State and ND i'm not sure there's more than 1-2 plays that he would've wanted back. Wirfs does some ridiculous things in game, but I think Andrew Thomas is elite in his own right. Mostly in the way of consistency. He gets to every block, and can do everything you want out of a OT. He excels getting to the 2nd level and is just a wall in pass pro. They're both legit top 10 tackles that show that they can be elite, but they do it different ways. I haven't looked closely into the OG situation, I was mostly talking about OT's. And as it always is, once you get out of the first round (or really into the late 1st) the difference in OT's is that they're starter quality but have more scheme limitations. I would REALLY encourage you to go back and key in on Jackson vs AJ. He didn't get "killed" like you think he did. He had some L's for sure, but he basically lost 1 rep in the first half as a whole, and it was just AJ being an elite player and literally catching Jacksons punch and once that happens its over. It happens to even the elite tackles like Tyron Smith. One where they shifted protection left and Jackson's job was to jump set to the man outside of AJ and the OG didn't come with him, so he got a free release, and then there was a sack where the pocket collapsed and the QB rolled right in to AJ who was past the pocket at that point. He played a hell of a game against him IMO. When you play a top 5-10 draft pick you're gonna get beat a few times, but he really didn't lose more than a handful of times. He is not nearly as raw as people want to believe he is. He's another legit 1st rounder at OT to me. Adams has health issues, but is incredibly solid. Bartch is a guy that all the small school guys who I have talked to are in love with (was talked about as the best small school OL since Marpet, and on that level), I don't think Niang is as raw as you do, but he's a bit limited in terms of scheme, but he'll be a solid RT IMO. Honestly I just don't see the dropoff you do. Sure you have the top 3, but then you have Austin Jackson, Adams, Becton, Leatherwood, then in the next tier you have guys like Prince, Niang, Jones etc. That's a solid 10deep right there, who are all probably going in the first 2 days. I personally see Lemieux as a 2nd round OG, so saying he's not as good as that isn't a huge slight to me. Throckmorton is a plug and play RT, who can play OG as well (last year had starts at every position other than LG), and has been so consistently good it's ridiculous. Guy is going to be a long time starter in this league IMO, and Lemieux is going to be as well. Both are day 2 picks for me, and both are technical enough to be plug and play guys. Trey Smith is the best OG in this class, he's a stud, but you're right health issues. I'll have to do more work on the rest of the OG's, but I do like a few guys there. Also look out for Cameron Clark from Charlotte. He is FUN to watch, probably an OG in the NFL, but the dude plays HARD and throws people around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 31 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Think Kliff and co. pass on Ceedee? Kliff wanted Isabella so he should stay out of it lol. Keim has never been able to evaluate WR’s either... I just think right now the OL is a bigger need. With the exception of Humphries there’s really no young talent there going forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 That's a terrible decision by Leatherwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 They have deep pockets down there at Alabama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, .Buzz said: Damn. He was a target at pick 33. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Makes me suspect Tua is coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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