College Football and NFL Draft Discussion

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

13 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

Gonna parrot what a few others have said: Freddie as a coach was as bad as Hue, maybe worse. Just about any decent coach and we are in the playoffs right now. Honestly can't remember when even a Browns coach looked that over his head. Never especially believed in Freddie but trusted Dorsey 🤦‍♂️.

And good tags--forgot to tag those dudes.

I loved the hire but he was clearly in over his head.  

I don’t doubt we’re much improved, but I’ve seen this movie one too many times to deal future assets.

[NudeTayne]

24 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I loved the hire but he was clearly in over his head.  

I don’t doubt we’re much improved, but I’ve seen this movie one too many times to deal future assets.

Totally agree that it's the safest approach with our history, but plenty of teams have traded up for the right guy and had it work. *achoo*Haloti Ngata*achoo*Minkah*achoo*Devin Bush*achoo*. True that these were varying values, but look at when we traded down from #2. At some point we gotta trust our assessments of player values, do if we have a guy as, say #7 on our draft board and he makes it to #17, why not take a swing? Thinking Epenesa will test high on strength but not in speed and could be available in the late teens. 🤔 It's all speculation, of course

Edited January 6, 2020 by NudeTayne
and yet here we are.

[Bonanza23]

I want best LT at 10 and Throckmorton in the second. Tackle problem solved for 10+ years. 
 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, NudeTayne said:

Totally agree that it's the safest approach with our history, but plenty of teams have traded up for the right guy and had it work. *achoo*Haloti Ngata*achoo*Minkah*achoo*Devin Bush*achoo*.

Ngata cost a 6.  If that’s the cost, sure pull the trigger.

Minkah was a known entity, there was no concern as to whether or not he’d be successful in the NFL. That adds to his value and isn’t applicable to draft picks.

Bush didn’t cost the following year’s first (or second).

1 hour ago, NudeTayne said:

True that these were varying values, but look at when we traded down from #2.

So many variables between poor coaching, scheme change, instability in the organization, etc to even begin to guess if Wentz works out here though.  

It just as easily could have been a flop with Wentz or anyone else.  We don’t put rookies in a position to succeed.

1 hour ago, NudeTayne said:

At some point we gotta trust our assessments of player values,

There’s trusting your judgement and there’s an overconfidence effect.

That said, I’d probably be more comfortable with swinging big if I actually trusted our FO to get the pick right.  As it stands, we’ll have an unproven GM most likely, a new coaching staff that will value our current players differently and likely won’t have a great idea of needs until next yea recently they’ve had a chance to coach them in their system.

Baltimore and Pitt had loooong established a culture, scheme, talent base, track record of being able to identify players that fit their system, etc. when they made those moves.

The situations are very from ours.

1 hour ago, NudeTayne said:

do if we have a guy as, say #7 on our draft board and he makes it to #17, why not take a swing?

Because you could have multiple opportunities to get quality players (imo)

1 hour ago, NudeTayne said:

Thinking Epenesa will test high on strength but not in speed and could be available in the late teens. 🤔 It's all speculation, of course

I agree.  

I think in general it’s wise to trade up for “your guy” at QB (as there are so few of them) and that’s about it.

Other than that, stay where you are and keep your assets (or accumulate more if a deal arises).

[Mind Character]

4 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

Tayne's dream is somehow getting one of Wirfs/Thomas AND THEN Epenesa, even if that means trading our '21 1st & 2nd. Is it possible? Probably not, but...🤔🤷‍♂️.

@Mind Character, @LETSGOBROWNIES, @DaWg_LB., @candyman93, @BleedTheClock and order draftnicks, how many bluechips you got in this draft--gonna assume Tua, Burrow and Herbert go top-9, even if a team like the Raiders trade up for one--? And what about next year's draft class at this point? Does it look especially weak or strong?

Would our nerds pull the trigger on banking that other teams would want to roll the dice on our Browns pick as being worth trading our of the first in hopes of us sucking (newsflash: we won't be picking top-10 again for a while).

In my opinion, NFL evaluators will see the draft pool as having 8-14 true Blue Chip Prospects in this draft. I personally can make an argument for 16 prospects although some of the 16 I have valued as All-Pro top of the 1st Round Prospects and I believe in them (Jedrick Wills Jr.) while others on that list have Blue-Chip Developmental Traits as mid-to-late 1st round prospects and I don't really believe in them as much (Justin Herbert).

The list is the following:

1.) Chase Young, DE Ohio State

2.) Jedrick Wills Jr., RT Alabama

3.) Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

4.) Tristan Wirfs, OG-Phenom/OT Iowa

5.) Jeffrey Okudah, CB Ohio STate

6.) Cee Dee Lamb, WR Oklahoma

7.) Kristian Fulton, CB LSU

8.) Netane Muti, OG/LT Fresno State

9.) Jerry Jeudy, WR Alabama

10.) AJ Epenesa, DE Iowa

11.) Derrick Brown, 34NT Auburn

12.) (Healthy) Tua Tagovailoa, QB Alabama

13.) Joe Burrow, QB LSU

14.) Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson

15.) Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia

16.) Justin Herbert, QB Oregon

Edited January 7, 2020 by Mind Character

[NateDawg]

I don’t see Justin Herbert as a blue chip guy. With that said, it would be awesome to see three quarterbacks go off the board before we pick. I’d love to see a team move up to grab Herbert somewhere in the top 10.  I think that team will be sorely disappointed.

[Mind Character]

7 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I don’t see Justin Herbert as a blue chip guy. With that said, it would be awesome to see three quarterbacks go off the board before we pick. I’d love to see a team move up to grab Herbert somewhere in the top 10.  I think that team will be sorely disappointed.

Not all Blue-Chips are created equal.

Some are Ready Made, Some are more developmental projections. 

There's a ton that I don't like about Herbert much like I didn't like about Josh Allen, but traits and ability-wise he's more of the developmental projection Blue-Chip type. His value is mid to late Round 1, but he'll go top 10 to our benefit. As much as there's a lot to dislike in his game, there's a lot to like and build off of. And Ultimately, I'm willing to bet on him having longterm successful NFL career.

[Mind Character]

Some of my favorite value selections for this upcoming draft

Ross Blacklock, DT TCU (Likely in the 4th or 5th because I don't know why)

Netane Muti, LT/OC/OG Fresno State (Likely in the 2nd due to injury concerns)

Michael Pittman Jr., WR USC (Likely 2nd to 3rd because of speed concerns and draft poolpositional depth)

Bryan Edwards, WR South Carolina (Likely 3rd to 4th because of speed concerns)

Denzel Mims, WR Baylor (Likely late 2nd to 3rd because of speed concerns)

JK Dobbins, RB Ohio State (Likely mid-2nd to early 3rd round due to positional value)

Jalen Raegor, WR TCU (Likely in the 2nd because of low usage)

[pnies20]

6 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

No draftnik here, I just parrot what the nerds who are say. 

@pnies20 and @MSURacerDT55 are the ones to ask in addition to the guys you mentioned.

Me personally I’m not touching our ‘21 first. 

I’m guessing most of us thought that a year ago too.

My blue chip guys in order:

1. Joe Burrow

2. Andrew Thomas

3. Chase Young

4. Jerry Jeudy

5. Jeff Okudah

6. Derrick Brown

7. Trey Smith - some may not be familiar. He’s Tennessee’s stud OT. he will push to be a top 5-8 pick.

 

On the outside looking in... JUST below blue chip status

8. Tua - high character guy, leader, ice in his veins. Just not sold on him.

9. A.J. Epenesa

10. Grant Delpit - didn’t continue to improve on 2018 season which bothers me. Could’ve been a top 5 guy.

11. Tristan Wirfs - my pick for the Browns - stud RT to start for several years. Trey Smith could fall to 10. 

12. Jonathan Taylor Thomas

13. Cee Dee Lamb

14. Kristian Fulton - Character issues

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

 

1 minute ago, pnies20 said:

7. Trey Smith - some may not be familiar. He’s Tennessee’s stud OT. he will push to be a top 5-8 pick.

You think so?  Even with the blood clots?

[pnies20]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

 

You think so?  Even with the blood clots?

I didn’t know that. I just watched almost every UT game down here. Everyone still thinks they’re a top 3 team here.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, pnies20 said:

I didn’t know that. I just watched almost every UT game down here. Everyone still thinks they’re a top 3 team here.

I’ve read a little about him, most seem to think he’s a G more than a tackle, but a dominant G.

high 1st round talent with significant long term health concerns.

[pnies20]

9 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’ve read a little about him, most seem to think he’s a G more than a tackle, but a dominant G.

high 1st round talent with significant long term health concerns.

Watch his game against GA

I remember watching this and thinking good lord he’s pummeling everyone they put in front of him.

Edited January 7, 2020 by pnies20

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

23 minutes ago, pnies20 said:

Watch his game against GA

I remember watching this and thinking good lord he’s pummeling everyone they put in front of him.

Maybe I just have what I’ve read in my head, but I didn’t love his lateral mobility.

He wasn’t great in pass pro and when asked to move.

Straight ahead, when he got his hands on someone, he was a load.  Definitely a dude that could get movement in the run game.

 

[candyman93]

Trey needs to be a guard, but GAAHH DAMN he’s built like a semi truck.