Are Rivera or Newton in trouble if Panthers miss the playoffs?

[Uncle Buck]

3 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

At this point it's starting to get underrated.  Panthers went 15-1 and Cam scored 45 TDs lol.  His performance in the superbowl probably hurts people's perception of his season prior.  If the Panthers win that game, the overrated season talk doesn't happen.

Super Bowls wins are huge.  In "best all-time" quarterback lists, Fran Tarkenton hardly ever gets mentioned, in spite of the fact that he's a Hall of Famer who led the Vikings to 3 Super Bowls and pretty much owned the record book for passing when he retired.

[Zithers2]

2 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

They had one of the softest defensive schedules I’ve ever seen. That division alone defensively my god(6 games). Bucs opposing passers completed 70 percent of their passes(MM perfect passer rating in his first game), Falcons dead last in sacks with 19 total, saints gave up more passing touchdowns than any defense in the history of the league. 

The Bucs were bad on defense but guess who scored the 2nd and 3rd highest totals against them? That's right, the Panthers! Cam threw 7 TDs against the Saints ... they allowed 45 on the year, so 38 in 14 non-Panther games (2.7 TDs per game) - so Cam averaged much higher than what they allowed on average! And the Panthers had the 3rd and 8th highest scoring games on the Saints. So still better than what the average opponent did. Then Atlanta actually beat us and then the other game... we scored the most points they allowed all season! Falcons were pretty middle of the road actually despite the low sack total.

Gee, makes you wonder if these teams had low defensive stats because they had to play Cam Newton twice per year HMMMMMM

[patriotsheatyan]

Newton was awful in the first half of 2015. He was a passer rating in the 70s in the first half of that season. He only had two games in his first seven with a passer rating above 80.

Then he had three five touchdown games in the second half of the season that significantly distorted his numbers and made him 7th in passer rating. 

Cam won MVP that season because his team had the best record, he gets his name out there easily enough, and it was one of the weakest years in recent memory for MVP. Newton’s 2015 season wouldn’t win MVP most years, never mind one of the best ever.

[BayRaider]

1 hour ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Newton was awful in the first half of 2015. He was a passer rating in the 70s in the first half of that season. He only had two games in his first seven with a passer rating above 80.

Then he had three five touchdown games in the second half of the season that significantly distorted his numbers and made him 7th in passer rating. 

Cam won MVP that season because his team had the best record, he gets his name out there easily enough, and it was one of the weakest years in recent memory for MVP. Newton’s 2015 season wouldn’t win MVP most years, never mind one of the best ever.

I actually had Carson Palmer in the lead most of the year but he had a terrible final game and Cam had a great last few games. I gave it to Cam by a hair. People really forget Carson was money that year. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by BayRaider

[CP3MVP]

7 hours ago, Zithers2 said:

The Bucs were bad on defense but guess who scored the 2nd and 3rd highest totals against them? That's right, the Panthers! Cam threw 7 TDs against the Saints ... they allowed 45 on the year, so 38 in 14 non-Panther games (2.7 TDs per game) - so Cam averaged much higher than what they allowed on average! And the Panthers had the 3rd and 8th highest scoring games on the Saints. So still better than what the average opponent did. Then Atlanta actually beat us and then the other game... we scored the most points they allowed all season! Falcons were pretty middle of the road actually despite the low sack total.

Gee, makes you wonder if these teams had low defensive stats because they had to play Cam Newton twice per year HMMMMMM

Saying the Bucs were bad on defense is an understatement. 70% completion percentage allowed. Lol complete garbage. 

And it’s not just the division. They faced all sorts of garbage defenses like Jags Colts eagles titans giants.

Other than 2011 Rodgers I don’t think there’s any mvp who faced a softer defensive schedule than Cam 

[CP3MVP]

6 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Newton was awful in the first half of 2015. He was a passer rating in the 70s in the first half of that season. He only had two games in his first seven with a passer rating above 80.

Then he had three five touchdown games in the second half of the season that significantly distorted his numbers and made him 7th in passer rating. 

Cam won MVP that season because his team had the best record, he gets his name out there easily enough, and it was one of the weakest years in recent memory for MVP. Newton’s 2015 season wouldn’t win MVP most years, never mind one of the best ever.

Yeah people were saying this at the time. He was average at best the first half than ran the table down the stretch against godawful defenses like the saints and Giants. Plus the defense was getting a stupid amount of turnovers which people did warn panthers fans would regress the next year 

Edited September 14, 2019 by CP3MVP

[HoboRocket]

11 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

I'd be surprised if Vick made it in.  He wasn't a good enough passer, IMO.  Compare him to Randall Cunningham.  Cunningham wasn't as electric, but he was by far the best rushing QB in his day, and he was a considerably better passer than Michael was too.  He was also the QB for the highest scoring offense in the history of the game for the 1998 Vikings.  Cunningham isn't in, and I'd put him in before Vick.  Just my opinion.  I'm not trying to rain on your parade if you like Vick.

No, I'm not a huge fan of Vick. I respect his talents, but I'm not saying he should be enshrined. At all. I was simply saying that the dialogue once he's eligible for the Hall would be interesting, as it could clue us in on what Cam's future consideration could be. Both were electric runners with a few very good years and more not as good years. Both weren't awful passers, but if they relied on passing ability alone, they'd probably be bottom-half of the league QBs.

There's always the chance that Cam turns into Big Ben, but this late in his career, it's not likely.

[iknowcool]

14 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

They had one of the softest defensive schedules I’ve ever seen. That division alone defensively my god(6 games). Bucs opposing passers completed 70 percent of their passes(MM perfect passer rating in his first game), Falcons dead last in sacks with 19 total, saints gave up more passing touchdowns than any defense in the history of the league. 

Yeah but everybody says this.  So I'm still confused on how it is overrated.  Who overrates it?

It was a great season.  Was the defensive schedule easy?  Sure, but it isn't like Newton is the only one who has faced an easy schedule.  Why aren't more guys putting up 45 touchdowns every season?

And it's funny how it is always brought up how he faced an easy schedule.  As if we are supposed to take that into account, but not the fact his top wide receiver was Ted Ginn and his starting RB was an out of his prime Stewart.  He easily had the worst supporting cast of any QB who won MVP in the last decade, but somehow that never matters in the debate as much as "easy schedule" does.

[iknowcool]

11 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Newton was awful in the first half of 2015. He was a passer rating in the 70s in the first half of that season. He only had two games in his first seven with a passer rating above 80.

Then he had three five touchdown games in the second half of the season that significantly distorted his numbers and made him 7th in passer rating. 

Cam won MVP that season because his team had the best record, he gets his name out there easily enough, and it was one of the weakest years in recent memory for MVP. Newton’s 2015 season wouldn’t win MVP most years, never mind one of the best ever.

He scored 45 touchdowns!  He absolutely would, at the very least, be in the MVP conversation most years lol

And everyone who wins MVP does it partially because their team had a good record.  How is that supposed to be held against Newton?  

It's funny how going into that season, everyone considered the Panthers to be average at best.  Nobody gave them any respect that entire season, hell on this site they weren't even put in the top 5 in people's power rankings until like Week 10 and were considered to be a "weak" undefeated team.  Now apparently they were some great team and Newton was just the beneficiary lol

Edited September 14, 2019 by iknowcool

[iknowcool]

Manning

Brady

Mahomes

Marino

Brees

Rodgers

Newton

The only QBs in the history of the game with 45 or more touchdowns in a season.  Yet somehow 2015 Newton wouldn't win MVP most years?

You'd think most QBs would score 45 if all it came down to was playing an easy schedule.

Edited September 14, 2019 by iknowcool

[Nzd07]

I feel like recency bias may be getting into peoples' heads when reminiscing about Cam's 2015. He was never the most accurate in short-intermediate throws, but his deep passing and running ability that season more than made up for it. Obviously it turned out to be an outlier, but we've seen other quarterbacks (Flacco, Foles) have these type of stretches were they look like an elite QB. It just happens. It's a 16 game season, the sample size is always going to be small compared to baseball/basketball.

[Breesus mode]

The disrespect for Cam is real. I know he’s not an easy guy to like, but he’s a furkin nightmare to deal with when he’s healthy. Any time he’s on the field I never feel comfortable playing the Panthers.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Breesus mode
A word

[Calamity_Cometh]

It wasn't just about his passing that year. The man had an aura about him and that entire team was powered by that energy.

[Hunter2_1]

4 hours ago, Breesus mode said:

The disrespect for Cam is real. I know he’s not an easy guy to like, but he’s a furkin nightmare to deal with when he’s healthy. Any time he’s on the field I never feel comfortable playing the Panthers.

This sums up my experiences as well.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

14 hours ago, iknowcool said:

Manning

Brady

Mahomes

Marino

Brees

Rodgers

Newton

The only QBs in the history of the game with 45 or more touchdowns in a season.  Yet somehow 2015 Newton wouldn't win MVP most years?

You'd think most QBs would score 45 if all it came down to was playing an easy schedule.

Interesting that all of those quarterbacks finished #1 in DYAR via Pro Football Outsiders (except for Rodgers who was #2 behind Brees when they both had 45+ touchdowns the same year). Marino is unknown since the metrics don't go that far back, but I'd be shocked if he wasn't #1 that year. 

Newton however, finished 11th according to their metrics in 2015. Behind Jay Cutler even. PFF had him 4th behind Palmer, Brady, and Roethlisberger. Doesn't really matter though since 45 touchdowns is 45 touchdowns. Just thought it was interesting. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by PapaShogun