NFL arranges workout for QB Colin Kaepernick

[EvilenFroggen]

51 minutes ago, Justwinning said:

ok, boomer

Don't you get tired of saying tiresome things?

 

2 hours ago, Slateman said:

I don't think it's that he has no intention, I think he just wants to come back on his terms, on a team of his choosing. And those opportunities are few and far between, particularly at the quarterback position.

Especially when you're not that good.

[HolmesPriest]

Maybe now he could try out for the Canadian Football League? Is this an actual option?

[BayRaider]

2 hours ago, HolmesPriest said:

Maybe now he could try out for the Canadian Football League? Is this an actual option?

Kaepernick turned down deals from Denver and AAF due to wanting 20M. 

He’s the biggest fraud in the history of sports. He makes a s*** ton of money playing victim and being an “activist”.

Can’t believe people join his pitty party and believe his never-ending bs. 

His workout looked like hadn’t thrown a football in 3 years, let alone work with any kind of coach. 

 

[N4L]

21 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

What does "indirectly related to the workout" mean? I'm trusting Florio's opinion on this because he was an employment lawyer who actually handled these types of cases before he started PFT. If a lawyer here wants to comment, I'm all ears. If there's another legal analyst who can say this is standard and Kaep would have been protected had he signed, I'll listen.

But the guy who is more or less uniquely qualified given his NFL and employment law knowledge is saying that this would be a magic bullet for NFL liability. 

Here is what it actually says:

"... related directly or indirectly to the Workout, Player’s presence at the Facility, and any medical treatment or services rendered in connection with or necessitated by Player’s participation in the Workout."

Indirectly to all of that does not equal "collusion/unfair descrimination for non-employment" it means if something happened indirectly to the workout itself but still caused by a series of events that pertained to the workout. For example, if you tripped and fell while getting out of the shower at the facility after the workout. The slip is not a direct result of the work out, because it didn't happen during the workout itself, but it was indirectly caused by your involvement in the workout. You cannot seek medical expenses etc etc from the NFL for the injury received indirectly to the workout, nor for faulty medical care received after the fall, if so rendered. 

 

As for the rest of it. I know it may seem like I'm anti kaep or whatever based on my post. I'm really not. I am a 49ers fan who loved him his second and third year in the NFL (he was our starter for essentially through his 6th season btw). I don't have family in the military and I understand why he was protesting in the first place, but as someone who was following him super closely since the day he was drafted, the guy is very misguided. 

He is getting really bad advice. I understand his lawyer told him not to sign the waiver, but this is exactly why people hate attorneys (I come from a family of attorneys btw). That waiver is clearly a standard, boilerplate waiver used by every team for every free agent work out. Of course it protects the NFL from a lawsuit, that's the whole friggen point of any liability waiver. This document doesn't prevent him from suing for collusion however and anyone who even remotely suggests that it does is full of sh*t

The NFL already settled with him and got him to sign paperwork that waives A LOT more than what was in this waiver. I'll say it again, A LOT MORE. Before you say "well you don't know what they signed" I know that there is ZERO chance the NFL agreed to anything that didn't close the door on kaeps collusion claims. That is literally what he was paid for, to cease the lawsuit and prevent it from moving to discovery. No chance they would leave themselves open to the exact same lawsuit in the same calendar year lol do you think they are dumb? 

The fact he was unwilling to even sign something saying he would not pursue legal action against the NFL et al means that the situation is beyond repair.

All employment comes with strings attached, thats literally why they pay you, but if you aren't even willing to concede ANYTHING to the other side for a simple workout, what is it going to be like signing a complicated contract for employment with any NFL team? Moving the workout is a major turnoff because it shows he isn't there to actually make a compromise. 

Then you tie that in with the constant slave references and it's obvious this guy is an attention seeking clown who claims to want to play in the NFL, but is unwilling to do what is necessary. If you wanted to be an astronaut (highly skilled and very few actually get selected) but you wouldn't do the extraordinary things required in such a selective field, then could you really expect to go to space? Kaep has shown time and time again that he isn't willing to do what it takes. Even when he was on a roster he wasn't doing what it took, he never watched film at home. The mental side of football was never there for him and he never studied it. It was a joke and I was glad I dont have to watch him play football anymore (as a 49er fan).

Also, not necessarily relevant to the topic at hand, but let's not forget that the guy claims to be a political activist and then doesnt even vote on election day. I was in his corner for a long time but this recent mess has put me firmly in the 'i hope I never hear his name again' crowd

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 hour ago, N4L said:

Here is what it actually says:

"... related directly or indirectly to the Workout, Player’s presence at the Facility, and any medical treatment or services rendered in connection with or necessitated by Player’s participation in the Workout."

Indirectly to all of that does not equal "collusion/unfair descrimination for non-employment" it means if something happened indirectly to the workout itself but still caused by a series of events that pertained to the workout. For example, if you tripped and fell while getting out of the shower at the facility after the workout. The slip is not a direct result of the work out, because it didn't happen during the workout itself, but it was indirectly caused by your involvement in the workout. You cannot seek medical expenses etc etc from the NFL for the injury received indirectly to the workout, nor for faulty medical care received after the fall, if so rendered. 

 

As for the rest of it. I know it may seem like I'm anti kaep or whatever based on my post. I'm really not. I am a 49ers fan who loved him his second and third year in the NFL (he was our starter for essentially through his 6th season btw). I don't have family in the military and I understand why he was protesting in the first place, but as someone who was following him super closely since the day he was drafted, the guy is very misguided. 

He is getting really bad advice. I understand his lawyer told him not to sign the waiver, but this is exactly why people hate attorneys (I come from a family of attorneys btw). That waiver is clearly a standard, boilerplate waiver used by every team for every free agent work out. Of course it protects the NFL from a lawsuit, that's the whole friggen point of any liability waiver. This document doesn't prevent him from suing for collusion however and anyone who even remotely suggests that it does is full of sh*t

I have 2 differing opinions to weigh here. 

The first comes from an attorney who has practiced in this area, is staking his professional reputation on this, and has direct access to agents, teams, and other players who could help him conclusively answer things like "what does a standard waiver look like, and is this similar?". The second is from a non-attorney who has not practiced in this area and continually brings up non-relevant information like Kaepernick sleeping with Aldon Smith's ex-girlfriend.

So I could make this drawn out and painful by asking you how many NFL workout waivers you've seen in your life, then when you say just this one, ask how you have any concept of what "standard" is, but that's a waste of time. Don't take it personally when I say that I don't place much weight in your read of that sentence, nor do I believe any other FF layman's interpretation. You're not the most qualified person talking about it, Florio is. If someone else with a legal background weighs in, I'll listen.

1 hour ago, N4L said:

The NFL already settled with him and got him to sign paperwork that waives A LOT more than what was in this waiver. I'll say it again, A LOT MORE. Before you say "well you don't know what they signed" I know that there is ZERO chance the NFL agreed to anything that didn't close the door on kaeps collusion claims. That is literally what he was paid for, to cease the lawsuit and prevent it from moving to discovery. No chance they would leave themselves open to the exact same lawsuit in the same calendar year lol do you think they are dumb? 

The fact that Kaepernick was even granted a workout requires that both the NFL and Kaep did not include that Kaep would never seek to play football again as part of the settlement. From Florio, who did this for a living, that is a pretty standard clause in settlement agreements. And we know it wasn't included in this instance, 100%.  Therefore, your argument is that the NFL and Kaepernick each agreed as part of the settlement that Kaep would still be able to seek employment in the NFL, but the league would be able to collude against him if it chose to in the future. That's absurd.

From here on, I'm speculating a little bit, but it's also likely in the settlement that the NFL included some clause that said the settlement payment is not an admission of guilt. Again, pretty standard thing. Which means you're arguing that the NFL argued it had never colluded against Kaepernick prior to the settlement, wouldn't ban him from the league, but in the same agreement reserved the right to collude in the future if it so chose. That doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

This is all Florio's take on the situation, and again, he's the qualified person here. What the NFL actually did was close the door on any collusion that occurred before the settlement. So if Jerry Jones conspired to keep Kaep out of the league in 2018, Kaep waived his right to sue in the previous settlement. If Jerry Jones was sending e-mails this summer telling other teams not to sign Kaep, that wouldn't have been covered. That potential liability inspired the NFL to create this waiver and start this whole process again. And yes, I've already said in this thread that I am shocked the NFL didn't include language in Kaep's previous settlement making sure he never plays football again, I don't think the NFL is necessarily dumb for doing what they did (though it's blowing up in their faces right now). I think they're cheap. Buying out Kaep's future years would have been expensive, and there are owners who will pinch pennies on everything they can.

1 hour ago, N4L said:

The fact he was unwilling to even sign something saying he would not pursue legal action against the NFL et al means that the situation is beyond repair.

All employment comes with strings attached, thats literally why they pay you, but if you aren't even willing to concede ANYTHING to the other side for a simple workout, what is it going to be like signing a complicated contract for employment with any NFL team? Moving the workout is a major turnoff because it shows he isn't there to actually make a compromise. 

You are still taking this workout as a good faith tryout. The entire perspective changes when you look at it for what it was: bait to sign away legal liability.

1 hour ago, N4L said:

Then you tie that in with the constant slave references and it's obvious this guy is an attention seeking clown who claims to want to play in the NFL, but is unwilling to do what is necessary. If you wanted to be an astronaut (highly skilled and very few actually get selected) but you wouldn't do the extraordinary things required in such a selective field, then could you really expect to go to space? Kaep has shown time and time again that he isn't willing to do what it takes. Even when he was on a roster he wasn't doing what it took, he never watched film at home. The mental side of football was never there for him and he never studied it. It was a joke and I was glad I dont have to watch him play football anymore (as a 49er fan).

Also, not necessarily relevant to the topic at hand, but let's not forget that the guy claims to be a political activist and then doesnt even vote on election day. I was in his corner for a long time but this recent mess has put me firmly in the 'i hope I never hear his name again' crowd

Whether or not Kaep votes, or wears shirts and socks we don't like or watches enough film has nothing to do with his legal case.

 

If you have someone who is qualified provide their opinion on this waiver, I'm all ears. But if it's just going to be your read, we're into agree to disagree territory, and I don't see a reason to continue discussing it.

[Texans02]

I seriously don't understand why the NFL would get into a publicity stunt war with a guy who professionally seeks publicity at this point. I think both sides were acting in bad faith, and the only losers in this situation are the fans that get to watch the whole eye-roll inducing situation play out to breathless media coverage and speculation.

If anyone would like to hire a spot starter/quality backup QB that brings along a 3 ring PR circus, go right ahead. I'm sure you totally won't regret it the moment the ink is dry.

[MWil23]

Personally, I think that both sides look awful after this weekend. From a sheer "football stuff" standpoint, other GM's look at CK as a guy who "hasn't changed" or "isn't worth the media circus to ability metric".

If you apply the Vicky Mendoze Line (Just go with me here) to any NFL player, then you're basically replacing "Hot" with "Talented" and "Crazy" with "Distraction". CK is definitely one of the best 64 QBs (Maybe even Top 32) in the world, but he's not worth the negative that he brings to a locker room, the media distraction, the fans who will boycott ticket sales/merchandise, the local affiliates who will refuse to show NFL games, etc. I'd actually respect the teams that would say as much, but they never will, as I'm sure their lawyers have informed them not to comment at all. Throw in the money he'd make as a veteran, and it makes more sense to roll with a Brandon Allen or Ryan Finley 

Meanwhile, the NFL clearly colluded against him, and to be honest, I think Reid had a more clear case than CK. CK at least opted out of his contract, whereas Reid wasn't signed for quite some time based purely on his own beliefs. This whole NFL workout last Saturday was a clear facade. I'm sure CK didn't want the NFL to only release his bad throws, quotes taken potentially out of context, etc. because the NFL wants to control the narrative here, which is that CK hasn't played football in 3 years and isn't good enough (not true in all likelihood, as he's obviously better than Ryan Finley for example).

At the same point, CK did move the workout to make a personal and political statement (see: his shirt, his interview). If he would have just given the "token answers" and worn the "token gear", then I think he comes out of this looking great, with his workout being open to the public, to show he can play, to open it up to the media, and to weed out all of the fake interest from teams that the NFL clearly manufactured.

This is just IMO so take it for what it's worth.

@ramssuperbowl99 hopefully that details a little more of my point(s) yesterday. Yesterday was a long/busy day, so you got snapshots.

[ramssuperbowl99]

43 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

@ramssuperbowl99 hopefully that details a little more of my point(s) yesterday. Yesterday was a long/busy day, so you got snapshots.

Yeah man I get you.

The NFL could have payed him his money and made him go away permanently, and they didn't. Everyone involved in this knows the relationship has deteriorated beyond repair, but they haven't finalized the divorce so we can all move on. Instead, we're getting each side going into things with ulterior motives: the NFL wants to limit their legal liability, and Kaep wants to take them to the cleaners. Everyone knows the workout is secondary to the lawsuit, and I think it's perfectly reasonable for a fan to be annoyed at 2 parties talking at each other in riddles/lawyer-speak or going through the motions instead of finding an amicable solution.

I just get annoyed when people take their dislike of Kaep and apply it to the legal exposure for the league, because at that point, we're moving outside of the realm of personal opinion. I'm not commenting when someone says they don't like him personally, or that he's phony or whatever. He's done stuff that legitimately bothers people, and I'm not defending it. People can feel however they want. 

But people say things like "Kaep never had a case against the league in the first place", which is just wrong. The NFL filed for summary judgement to dismiss the case as baseless, and a judge rejected the motion. We don't know how strong the case was, but it wasn't completely air. If it was, it would have been dismissed. But people dislike him so much and make him out to be the bad guy to the point where they just want to wish him not having a case into existence. So I comment on that stuff.

Edited November 20, 2019 by ramssuperbowl99

[JonMcC2018]

It's just a simple decision making process:

Is Kaepernick good enough to have a job in the NFL? Yes.

Is he good enough to outweigh the baggage/attention that signing him would bring to a team? No.

[Chrissooner49er]

31 minutes ago, JonMcC2018 said:

It's just a simple decision making process:

Is Kaepernick good enough to have a job in the NFL? Yes.

Is he good enough to outweigh the baggage/attention that signing him would bring to a team? No.

Is he good enough to start in the NFL? Not as a QB.

FIFY

[ChazStandard]

1 hour ago, JonMcC2018 said:

It's just a simple decision making process:

Is Kaepernick good enough to have a job in the NFL? Yes.

Is he good enough to outweigh the baggage/attention that signing him would bring to a team? No.

Exactly.

It's the same reason Taysom Hill has a career as a gadget player under a good coach, and Tim Tebow could never stick on a roster. At a certain point, a player just stops being worth the trouble.

[EvilenFroggen]

1 hour ago, JonMcC2018 said:

It's just a simple decision making process:

Is Kaepernick good enough to have a job in the NFL? Yes.

Is he good enough to outweigh the baggage/attention that signing him would bring to a team? No.

People don't take this into account enough.  When you have Kaep, or Tebow like @ChazStandard said, every average offensive game becomes a nightmare.

[Starter throws one TD and two picks, loses game on a last second FG]

Press conference reporter: Coach, have you thought about putting in Super Famous Backup QB?

Sports radio call in guy: First time, long time. I think it's about time for Coach to put in Super Famous Backup QB.  SFBQB would have us in the Super Bowl if Coach would get his head out of his butt.

Shannon Sharpe: Come on Skeeup!  It's time for Super Famous Backup QB and you know it!

Bleacher Report: When is the league going to figure out that Super Famous Backup QB is the future?

 

So yeah, let's spend the rest of our season putting up with that every other game.

[Calvert28]

1 hour ago, ChazStandard said:

Exactly.

It's the same reason Taysom Hill has a career as a gadget player under a good coach, and Tim Tebow could never stick on a roster. At a certain point, a player just stops being worth the trouble.

I gave Tebow alot of crap in the past. But for one the guy just couldnt really play. And two his controversy compared CK's is like a molehill to a mountain. 

But Tebow wasn't looking to start controversy he was doing as he did since he was at Florida.  

[EvilenFroggen]

11 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

I gave Tebow alot of crap in the past. But for one the guy just couldnt really play. And two his controversy compared CK's is like a molehill to a mountain. 

But Tebow wasn't looking to start controversy he was doing as he did since he was at Florida.  

He absolutely wasn't trying to, but when your subpar backup QB has a massive following, that's a huge problem.

[evilpimp972]

3 hours ago, JonMcC2018 said:

It's just a simple decision making process:

Is Kaepernick good enough to have a job in the NFL? Yes.

Is he good enough to outweigh the baggage/attention that signing him would bring to a team? No.

My only problem is that he shouldnt have been a headache to begin with, his activism was blown out of proportion because the nfl made a big deal out of it (when Eric Reid did the same lol)

But totally agree with you.