Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[theJ]

29 minutes ago, Danger said:

I have very controversial opinions on certain matters that I'll not delve further into. And yeah, I'd be fine as would most people. The negative ramifications this cautious approach are going to get exponentially worse the longer this goes on. I've seen some estimates at 12 to 18 months even. At what point do we decide that the current approach just isn't sustainable for the country as a whole.

Probably another month or so. 

[Danger]

13 minutes ago, theJ said:

Probably another month or so. 

And if that's the case, then I'm fine with it. But if we're looking at say... June 1 and there's no end in sight, then I think we need to reconsidering how we're going about things collectively.

[squire12]

9 minutes ago, Danger said:

And if that's the case, then I'm fine with it. But if we're looking at say... June 1 and there's no end in sight, then I think we need to reconsidering how we're going about things collectively.

I think the issue is going to come down to how well, quickly and broadly people can get tested for antibodies to assess how "safe" it is going to be to let people resume more close associations.  Add to that, if there becomes a better understanding of early treatment options that can reduce the risk of severe symptoms and death, that adds to the opening up process.  

[bucsfan333]

Would also help if everyone listened to the experts and followed what they say. The numbers aren't as bad because a lot of us are actually playing along. Not because it isn't a big deal. Sucking it up is what's helping make things better.

[naptownskinsfan]

58 minutes ago, theJ said:

Probably another month or so. 

Honestly probably the first week of May is my timeline, just under a month.  Over a month and in heavy population centers people might start misbehaving. 

[mission27]

1 hour ago, theJ said:

1 hour ago, Danger said:

I have very controversial opinions on certain matters that I'll not delve further into. And yeah, I'd be fine as would most people. The negative ramifications this cautious approach are going to get exponentially worse the longer this goes on. I've seen some estimates at 12 to 18 months even. At what point do we decide that the current approach just isn't sustainable for the country as a whole.

Probably another month or so. 

Yep

People saying 12 to 18 months are honestly sick in the head and you're starting to see these people get a platform which is deeply disturbing.  The same people who would have been silenced a month ago because had their voices been heard nobody would've agreed to go into lockdown and distancing in the first place, now there's a sense that maybe this agenda can be pushed.  Their utter contempt for people's need to feed their families and experience human connection and live their lives is breathtaking.  Its like nothing matters to these people except getting the death count from COVID as low as possible

May sound dramatic but these people really piss me off

Thankfully the focus of our political leaders is clearly on finding a way to quickly get people back to their lives, both in Europe and now North America.  I think people were always prepared for about 2 months which is what most of China went through.  That gets you to May or June.  Yes we probably wont get case counts down as low as China is reporting both because those numbers are artificially suppressed and because we don't live in a full blown big brother society.  But we will be fine.  Thank god we live in a democracy where our leaders are accountable to voters not panels of glorified sociologists with no actual experience in practical public health 

[naptownskinsfan]

38 minutes ago, mission27 said:

Yep

People saying 12 to 18 months are honestly sick in the head and you're starting to see these people get a platform which is deeply disturbing.  The same people who would have been silenced a month ago because had their voices been heard nobody would've agreed to go into lockdown and distancing in the first place, now there's a sense that maybe this agenda can be pushed.  Their utter contempt for people's need to feed their families and experience human connection and live their lives is breathtaking.  Its like nothing matters to these people except getting the death count from COVID as low as possible

May sound dramatic but these people really piss me off

Thankfully the focus of our political leaders is clearly on finding a way to quickly get people back to their lives, both in Europe and now North America.  I think people were always prepared for about 2 months which is what most of China went through.  That gets you to May or June.  Yes we probably wont get case counts down as low as China is reporting both because those numbers are artificially suppressed and because we don't live in a full blown big brother society.  But we will be fine.  Thank god we live in a democracy where our leaders are accountable to voters not panels of glorified sociologists with no actual experience in practical public health 

I don't know where they came from to be honest.  I always thought that social distancing and flattening the curve was to get us to a point where the medical system wasn't overwhelmed, as well as buy time to find/development treatment and vaccines.  Obviously we aren't going to see full stadiums full of people for concerts and games, but I am floored to see that platform come out.  

[mission27]

20 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I don't know where they came from to be honest.  I always thought that social distancing and flattening the curve was to get us to a point where the medical system wasn't overwhelmed, as well as buy time to find/development treatment and vaccines.  Obviously we aren't going to see full stadiums full of people for concerts and games, but I am floored to see that platform come out.  

Unfortunately it seems a lot of people's identity right now is tied up in either wokeness about the coronavirus or thinking its completely overblown, just like everything else in our society only magnified because its the only thing anyone cares about anymore 

The wokeness angle is obviously the dominant POV among New York media types and they have the added incentive of fear mongering being good for business.  Not saying its some sort of conspiracy but the cultural wokeness about this issue + subconscious desire to find something new and newsworthy to publish is driving a lot of bad takes getting attention

Unfortunately many people fundamentally did not understand what the point of distancing and flattening the curve was and so you do have a group of people that legitimately believe we need to stay home until this is eradicated.  I think the technical term for these people is bat**** crazy

[mission27]

The thing that's most disturbing tbh is that people's legitimate need to go back to their work and life and friends and family is increasingly being minimized as if its selfish for people to want to return to their lives and loved ones and have an economic future because it might cause a higher rate of death or more strain on the health care system

Its reasonable to ask people to make sacrifices for a period of time to help others.  Its not necessarily reasonable to ask the vast majority of people who are at low risk to put their lives on hold indefinitely, potentially for years

The attitude that's developing that 'we just need to learn to live like this' is extreme tbh.  We always have choices.  Yes this is a war.  Sometimes we need to decide to end a war or change our approach because the cost is too great and not justified by the strategic objective.  Unfortunately our leaders are often years behind the public in figuring this out.  Hopefully wont be the case here

Minimizing people's dignity and rights to pursue life liberty and happiness is the first step in a very dangerous direction

Edited April 11, 2020 by mission27

[N4L]

Life is about balance

the virus has thrown off the balance of everything. of life, of our healthcare system, our logistics, our consumerism, our connectivity to eachother. we are adapting to the new normal. People are settling in. Its been basically 1 month to the day since 3/11. I think people are realizing how bad this is for everyone. I think the 'it cant continue forever' people are right, I also think the 'we need to shelter in place until this is over because this is a big freaking problem' are also right. Its about figuring out how to adapt under a completely new set of circumstances. 

At some point, people need to be able to accept the risks as adults. There is no cure / vaccine / guaranteed treatment out there right now. That's the reality. How people choose to live within that reality should be theres to make - to a point. If we tested more, and gave people immunity certificates, we might be able to loosen things up for a few months over the summer on a case by case basis. There has never been a better time for local governments to step up to the plate.  

After the summer its a coinflip. Will it come back harder or die in the heat? fate will decide the balance of the world

[mission27]

3 minutes ago, N4L said:

If we tested more, and gave people immunity certificates, we might be able to loosen things up for a few months over the summer on a case by case basis.

There is no evidence that a substantial portion of the population has immunity though.  At most you are talking like 5% of the population, probably much less.  Are the other 95% supposed to stay home indefinitely?  And what realistically are those 5% going to do with their new found freedom?  Its not a practical idea and would be completely ineffective at preventing the kind of social and economic collapse we are trying to avoid, while creating a perverse incentive for people to get the virus.  Knowing who is immune would be useful for essential workers especially healthcare workers in time of true lockdown but it doesnt replace the need to lift lockdown sooner rather than later for the vast majority of people who haven't yet been exposed to the virus.  And to your point, this is likely to come back and hit us hard in the fall.  If we don't lift lockdowns in the next 60 days its going to be very hard to lift lockdowns before next spring.  So then we truly are talking 12-18 months.  We need to focus on how we lift lockdown in May-June.  That probably means extending the national guidelines beyond April 30th but that has to come with a roadmap to normalization and coordination with cities and states.  Otherwise people are going to freak and have every right to.

[rob_shadows]

Speaking of....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-coronavirus-antibody-tests-coming-immunity-certificates-being-discussed-172122667.html

That's exactly what they are considering

[N4L]

3 minutes ago, mission27 said:

Otherwise people are going to freak and have every right to

that's the craziest part - what needs to be done is contradictory to all America's natural freedoms. Of course people have the right to 'freak' as you say, but that doesn't mean they should. 

We should be focused on keeping people fed, clothed, sheltered, and healthy. 

That doesn't mean being in lockdown forever. As I said, there needs to be some balance restored. Part of that is finding our footing in the new world, some of that is taking calculated risks. its how we measure those risks against the benefits that will determine how deep this runs. 

We don't know necessarily that it will come back in the fall. we do know that social distancing and sheltering in place does work. what if I told you 6 months of shelter would be enough, but that if you lifted restrictions after 5 that it would come back in the fall. What would you do? 

[N4L]

1 minute ago, rob_shadows said:

Speaking of....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-coronavirus-antibody-tests-coming-immunity-certificates-being-discussed-172122667.html

That's exactly what they are considering

that's just one piece of the puzzle. 

its a good idea. They should give them to people who tested positive and recovered rather than just the people who take the antibody test

if you get the same exact same virus twice (with zero mutation from the virus) and die the second time, that's basically natural selection if we are being honest. there is a reason your body remembers

[Troy Brown]

Ya'll seem like smart folk. Anyone here have an idea of how the 600 dollar unemployment benefit will work retroactively?