Your franchise All-Time Team?

[DannyB]

11 minutes ago, Danger said:

Andy Reid was a good coach for us. But he never won us a SB.

Again, If you read my subsequent posts, Bednarik if we're looking solely by players vs their level of competition then yes he has a claim to this list, but you don't go around calling Wilt Chamberlain the best basketball player of all time because he dominated some scrubs back in the olden days.

Okay, I get that he never won a SB for you, but are you saying Doug Pederson is the better coach? I mean that's what this is about.

And again, with era, I think it's worth noting what Nabbs brought up: how would Randy Moss would have done in the era where cornerbacks could just drop his *** before he hits his stride? Or he has to worry about a safety being free to take his head off with impunity?

However, I don't like going too deep down that path, because I think it's fair to say for the most part, the players themselves have just gotten so much bigger, faster, and stronger that it's just not fair. Sometimes I try to imagine if the player from a previous era was born today, with all of the advantages in so many different avenues (nutrition, exercise science, conditioning, advances in schemes, youth leagues, etc etc etc), would that player still be successful.

At the end of the day I just think it makes the most sense to, by and large, judge players against their contemporaries. One of my main exceptions to this is players from waaaay back in like, the 20s and 30s, since it was just so different. I mostly draw from SB-era players due to this.

[Uncle Buck]

MINNESOTA VIKINGS

HC: Bud Grant

QB: Fran Tarkenton
RB: Adrian Peterson
RB: Herschel Walker
WR: Randy Moss
WR: Cris Carter
WR: Anthony Carter
TE: Steve Jordan
LT: Gary Zimmerman
LG: Randall McDaniel
C: Mick Tingelhoff
RG: Steve Hutchinson
RT: Ron Yary

DE: Jared Allen
DT: Keith Millard
DT: Alan Page
DE: Carl Eller
LB: Matt Blair
LB: Eric Kendricks
LB: Chad Greenway

CB: Bobby Bryant
FS: Paul Krause
SS: Joey Browner
CB: Xavier Rhodes

K: Fred Cox
P: Mitch Berger

You know you have a beastly defensive line when you have two Hall of Famers that couldn't make the cut. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Uncle Buck

[Jakuvious]

1 hour ago, DannyB said:

Okay, I get that he never won a SB for you, but are you saying Doug Pederson is the better coach? I mean that's what this is about.

And again, with era, I think it's worth noting what Nabbs brought up: how would Randy Moss would have done in the era where cornerbacks could just drop his *** before he hits his stride? Or he has to worry about a safety being free to take his head off with impunity?

However, I don't like going too deep down that path, because I think it's fair to say for the most part, the players themselves have just gotten so much bigger, faster, and stronger that it's just not fair. Sometimes I try to imagine if the player from a previous era was born today, with all of the advantages in so many different avenues (nutrition, exercise science, conditioning, advances in schemes, youth leagues, etc etc etc), would that player still be successful.

At the end of the day I just think it makes the most sense to, by and large, judge players against their contemporaries. One of my main exceptions to this is players from waaaay back in like, the 20s and 30s, since it was just so different. I mostly draw from SB-era players due to this.

This is well-said, and articulates basically what I was going to post.

The, X player wouldn't hold up now, is always a silly argument in this kind of thread. Greatness compared to their peers is the easiest, most uniform way to go. Otherwise, you're punishing them for advancements in training and medicine, not really anything regarding their skill or abilities.

[Darbsk]

14 hours ago, Trojan said:

QB: Kenny Stabler (HOF), Rich Gannon, Flex K/QB George Blanda (HOF)
RB: Marcus Allen (HOF), Bo Jackson, Mark Van Eeghen
FB: Marcel Reece
WR: Fred Biletnikoff (HOF), Jerry Rice (HOF) (because we can't use prime Rice)
WR: Tim Brown (HOF), Art Powell
WR: Cliff Branch
TE: Todd Christensen, Dave Casper (HOF)
LT: Art Shell (HOF), Lincoln Kennedy, Henry Lawrence
LG: Gene Upshaw (HOF), Wayne Hawkins
C: Jim Otto (HOF), Dave Dalby, Don Mosebar
RG: Steve Wisnewski
RT: Ron Mix (HOF), Bob Brown (HOF), Harry Schuh

DE: Howie Long (HOF), Ben Davidson
DT: Warren Sapp (HOF), Richard Seymour, Tommy Kelly
DT: Chester McGlockton, Darrell Russell
DE: Khalil Mack, Greg Townsend
LB: Phil Villapiano, Greg Biekert
LB: Ted Hendricks (HOF), Dan Conners, Bill Romanowski
LB: Matt Millen, Rod Martin
CB: Willie Brown (HOF), Mike Haynes (HOF), Terry McDaniel
CB: Lester Hayes, Nnamdi Asomugha
CB: Charles Woodson, Dave Grayson
FS: Jack Tatum, Rod Woodson (HOF)
SS: George Atkinson, Ronnie Lott (HOF)

K: Sebastian Janikowski, George Blanda (HOF QB3/K hybrid)
P: Ray Guy (HOF), Shane Lechler

Owner: Al Davis (HOF)
Personnel Executive: Ron Wolf (HOF)
Offensive Coaching Staff: Tom Flores, Jon Gruden
Defensive Coaching Staff:  John Madden (HOF)

Don't think we should include Sapp, Lott, Seymour or Rice as they weren't at or near their primes whilst with the Raiders, no way we should have Tommy Kelly over Otis Sistrunk or even Bill Pickel who was very under rated. Id go with Vann McElroy at safety if we're having a squad, massively underrated player who put everything on the line. Other than that, very extensive list with some great staff! 

[THE DUKE]

Cincinnati Bengals

HC: Paul Brown

QB: Ken Anderson
RB: Corey Dillon
RB: James Brooks
WR: AJ Green
WR: Chad Johnson
WR: Carl Pickens
TE: Bob Trumpy
LT: Anthony Munoz
LG: Max Montoya
C: Bob Johnson
RG: Bobby Williams
RT: Willie Anderson

DE: Carlos Dunlap
DT: Tim Krumrie
DT: Geno Atkins
DE: Coy Bacon
LB: Reggie Williams
LB: Takeo Spikes
LB: James Francis

CB: Lemar Parish
FS: Tommy Casanova
SS: David Fulcher
CB: Ken Riley

K: Jim Breach
P: Pat McInally

[eagles suck]

It should be a rule set saying that a player had to play at least 3 years on a team to be considered a franchise all time player.

[Tugboat]

On 31/03/2020 at 3:16 PM, RamblinMan99 said:

When Paul Posluszny is the best LB your team has ever had.  

Wow.  sad.  

I'd say Hardy was probably the best LBer the Jaguars have ever had.  But Poz still belongs in the starting three imo.  Especially when you factor in not only how long he was there, but all the more "intangible" contributions he made to the team and the community.

I think the problem with him, is one of perception and recency.  That is, while he was really good for the Jaguars for quite a while...the rest of the team was utter trash around him for most of that time.  So the part of his Jaguars career that people remember most, is the more recent stuff at the tail end of it...where he'd lost more than a step and had started to become a real liability in coverage.

 

But yeah.  It feels like i must be missing somebody there...but i don't think i am.  I think that's just...the teams history at LBer i guess.  Got a few positions that are lackluster like that.  RB is really the only position where the team is stacked...going from Taylor straight to MJD for most of the teams existence is just pure luxury.  For the rest of it...Jaguars just happen to have a relatively short history, with a lot of bad players.

[DannyB]

1 hour ago, eagles suck said:

It should be a rule set saying that a player had to play at least 3 years on a team to be considered a franchise all time player.

I also think you have to factor how that player performed on your team. Jerry Rice was on the Raiders for 4 years, and had some 1k yard seasons. But he wasn't hitting 1500 yards and double-digit touchdowns like he was in San Fran. So, if you're Oakland and you pick Jerry Rice, THAT version is what you're getting, not the San Fran version.

Packers would get a decent Julius Peppers, but not in-his-prime Panthers Julius Peppers.

Obviously there's some gray area, and arguments could be made back and forth for certain players, but I think as a general guideline this is helpful.

[Nabbs4u]

14 hours ago, eagles suck said:

It should be a rule set saying that a player had to play at least 3 years on a team to be considered a franchise all time player.

At a high level no doubt. Otherwise just place any HOF who changed jerseys and was on your Team.

Montana as a Chief

Farve as a Viking/ Jet

Rice as a Raider / Seahawk

Moss/Sapp as a Raider 

TO as a Eagle

Emmitt as a a Cardinal

AP as a Redskin

Hell TB Fans should be claiming Tom Brady right now without a single snap!!

There has to be context when talking about Your Alltime Franchise Team. This isn't the best players in NFL history the past 30 years Who might of worn your jersey at some point in their careers! Unless that Player was also Dominate and for numerous years not just for 1 or 2.

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Nabbs4u

[RamblinMan99]

2 hours ago, Tugboat said:

I'd say Hardy was probably the best LBer the Jaguars have ever had.  But Poz still belongs in the starting three imo.  Especially when you factor in not only how long he was there, but all the more "intangible" contributions he made to the team and the community.

I think the problem with him, is one of perception and recency.  That is, while he was really good for the Jaguars for quite a while...the rest of the team was utter trash around him for most of that time.  So the part of his Jaguars career that people remember most, is the more recent stuff at the tail end of it...where he'd lost more than a step and had started to become a real liability in coverage.

 

But yeah.  It feels like i must be missing somebody there...but i don't think i am.  I think that's just...the teams history at LBer i guess.  Got a few positions that are lackluster like that.  RB is really the only position where the team is stacked...going from Taylor straight to MJD for most of the teams existence is just pure luxury.  For the rest of it...Jaguars just happen to have a relatively short history, with a lot of bad players.

Posluszny was projected to be much better than he was though, especially being a linebacker coming out of Penn State.  

He had a decent NFL career.  Wasn't terrible by any means.  

He definitely didn't start out with the right team.  Buffalo didn't give him much of a chance after the first preseason. 

Fred Taylor was a great RB for his longevity despite being so injury prone early on.  Nonetheless, he was still one of the better RBs of his time.  He played for 13 years.  Gave everything he had for Jacksonville. 

Maurice Jones Drew was....okay.  I don't think he was nearly as good as everybody made him out to be.  

He was a pretty good pass blocker, but only played for 9 years and started to look dispensable at the tail end of his career.  He had a solid rookie season and 3 good consecutive seasons in his prime, but RBs his size could actually play in the league for a much longer time than he did.  

[DannyB]

I many players do you think could/should make the team for multiple franchises, given some of the parameters discussed above?

I think Reggie White is the first one that comes to mind for me. Absolutely.

T.O. probably.

I think there's an argument for Randy Moss, but despite his eye-popping 2007 season, I think I come down on the side of NOT including N.E., but it's really close. Tough call.

Tony Gonzalez probably.

Shannon Sharpe maybe? I'd have to look into that one more.

Marshall Faulk maybe?

[Elky]

QB: Tom Brady
RB: Sam Cunningham
RB: Kevin Faulk
WR: Julian Edelman
WR: Stanley Morgan
TE: Rob Gronkowski
LT: Bruce Armstrong
LG: John Hannah
C: Jon Harris
RG: Logan Mankins
RT: Matt Light

DE: Andre Tippett
DT: Richard Seymour
DT: Vince Wilfork
DE: Willie McGinest
LB: Tedy Bruschi
LB: Dont'a Hightower
LB:
CB: Mike Haynes
FS: Devin McCourty
SS: Rodney Harrison
CB: Ty Law

K: Adam Vinatieri
P:

HC: Bill Belichick

Edited April 3, 2020 by Elky

[Maxmw22]

Buffalo Bills

HC: Marv Levy

QB: Jim Kelly
RB: O.J Simpson
RB: Thurman Thomas
WR: Andre Reed
WR: James Lofton
WR: Elbert Dubenion
TE: Pete Metzelaars
LT: Jason Peters
LG: Billy Shaw
C: Kent Hull
RG: Ruben Brown
RT: Will Wolford

DE: Bruce Smith
DT: Tom Sestak
DT: Fred Smerlas
DE: Aaron Schobel
LB: Cornelius Bennett
LB: London Fletcher
LB: Darryl Talley

CB: Antoine Winfield
FS: Henry Jones
SS: Lawyer Malloy
CB: Nate Clements

K: Steve Christie
P: Brian Moorman

[KingOfNewYork]

20 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

MINNESOTA VIKINGS

HC: Bud Grant

QB: Fran Tarkenton
RB: Adrian Peterson
RB: Herschel Walker
WR: Randy Moss
WR: Cris Carter
WR: Anthony Carter
TE: Steve Jordan
LT: Gary Zimmerman
LG: Randall McDaniel
C: Mick Tingelhoff
RG: Steve Hutchinson
RT: Ron Yary

DE: Jared Allen
DT: Keith Millard
DT: Alan Page
DE: Carl Eller
LB: Matt Blair
LB: Eric Kendricks
LB: Chad Greenway

CB: Bobby Bryant
FS: Paul Krause
SS: Joey Browner
CB: Xavier Rhodes

K: GARY ANDERSON
P: Mitch Berger

You know you have a beastly defensive line when you have two Hall of Famers that couldn't make the cut. 

Fixed.

[DannyB]

1 hour ago, Maxmw22 said:

Buffalo Bills

HC: Marv Levy

QB: Jim Kelly
RB: O.J Simpson
RB: Thurman Thomas
WR: Andre Reed
WR: James Lofton
WR: Elbert Dubenion

Yo keep your mitts off of James Lofton, he belongs to the Packers. He had one 1,000 yard season with the Bills, but generally just wasn't the receiver he once was with you guys. I think Eric Moulds is the better choice, or even Lee Evans.