raidr4life Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 Carr 2nd in deep balls last season, I was actually happy with how much we attempted deep balls, Gruden said he wanted Carr to throw more deep passes it actually happened. Carr got comfortable with Agholor hit him deep alot and Ruggs got a few too. Hope he keeps it up, tho his deep ball is not the best and improve in the redzone. https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-deep-passers-of-2020-aaron-rodgers-lands-at-no-4?campaign=Twitter_atn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 24 minutes ago, raidr4life said: Carr 2nd in deep balls last season, I was actually happy with how much we attempted deep balls, Gruden said he wanted Carr to throw more deep passes it actually happened. Carr got comfortable with Agholor hit him deep alot and Ruggs got a few too. Hope he keeps it up, tho his deep ball is not the best and improve in the redzone. https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-deep-passers-of-2020-aaron-rodgers-lands-at-no-4?campaign=Twitter_atn Gruden is getting the best out of carr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Gruden is getting the best out of carr. He is and I fully believe more is coming. I except Carr to improved by like 10% for next 2-3 years and then level out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 10 hours ago, Darbsk said: I also think he wasn't the best fit for Paul Guenther. Arnette to me projected as a good bump and run, physical man corner so we played him off a lot and asked him to react which he really struggled with like in the Robbie Anderson TD where he bit badly and the Miami debacle where he made the choice not based on situational awareness. I thought that was the area he struggled with in college where he was playing off and had to react and break on the receiver or ball, he was at his best getting physical with the receiver and when we did that against Tyreek Hill he covered him well. I do have a belief that Bradley will be more sympathetic with the rookies and 2nd year guys and will probably use them much more advantageously. I'm genuinely excited (probably expecting too much I know 😄) to see how we'll use these young kids and if they look much better. Plus Ron Milus is an A+ DB coach. One of the best to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Plus Ron Milus is an A+ DB coach. One of the best to do it. Yeh, I hear that but I only know him by name and don't really know much about him at all. I'll have to look into him I feel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 19 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I'm still very high on Arnette if his mentals are good. If he gets coached up, he can really play IMO. And he has the mentality you need in the secondary. The guy was put in brutal matchups his first year and didn't do half bad with a ton of injuries. Do not get me wrong. I like Arnette but just like Karl Joseph I think we panicked and reached for him. Arnette can still be a really good CB but I believe the better value was Kinlaw and Jefferson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 18 hours ago, Darbsk said: Exactly, and I can't for one second believe he was THAT much higher than the next guy on their board that he had to be taken right then and there. Perfect case was the '14 draft where we took Mack and we obviously liked Carr a lot but we showed great patience to wait and take him in the second. A lot of guys said the draft just fell into our laps but you also have to have the patience and have a grasp of the values in order to maximise value, maybe we actually preferred Bridgewater but we waited it out and the value came to us beautifully in '14. Not going to lie but I wanted Bridgewater over Carr. I was wrong on that one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 15 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Not going to lie but I wanted Bridgewater over Carr. I was wrong on that one. I think everyone did until Teddy's pro day. YIKES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Raider Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, G said: I think everyone did until Teddy's pro day. YIKES I didn't really like either guy to be honest, but that was in the lense of expecting both guys to end up being first round picks because of the way QBs are elevated during the draft. I would have taken either in the 2nd round, but I probably would have leaned towards Carr because I thought he had a much higher ceiling but a lower floor. Carr's college pocket presence and tendency to panic and get flustered into making bad decisions and poor throws scared me, and his brother being beat to death for the Texans was apart of that evaluation fair or not. Seeing my older brother go first overall and take the beating he took that IMO ruined any shot he had at succeeding could impact my play on the field when it comes to facing pressure. But man I loved his physical skills. He made some absolutely jaw dropping throws. I thought he had one of the best arms of a QB prospect in the past 5-10 years when he was coming out. He was also deceptively athletic, and I loved what I read about how much responsibility he had running the offense from audibles, protections, checks, and running the 2 minute offense. Seemed to be a sharp football mind (his brother positively effected this part of my evaluation). But I also thought he didn't have as many issues as you see with a lot of big arm college QBs, he didn't have awful accuracy or touch. It was actually pretty solid (though not Bridgewater prospect good based off my evaluation). And he wasn't a ridiculous gambler that had insane turnover issues because he trusted his arm to a fault. One of my issues with his evaluation was probably not factoring in some of his great tight window throws in college were plays made in spite of his struggles with anticipation and throwing guys open. I didn't make that connection and thought the arm strength to make the throws was the most impressive aspect. And really, my evaluation has translated a lot to the NFL. You have to make protecting him a top priority because otherwise you get a totally different QB that limits your chances of winning, but he's a smart guy capable of running multiple and complex offenses calling audibles at the line, he does have a great arm, he's improved his accuracy to be one of the more accurate in the league. But I thought he would be more willing/better throwing into tight windows because he showed the ability to kill teams in college making some big time tight window throws. I thought he would do better in terms of using his athletic ability to extend plays and pick up the occasional first down with his feet. I thought he may struggle with INTs early in his career but not to an unplayable level and become better in that regard, but in the NFL the INTs have never really been a problem. Even in 15 and 16 when he was more aggressive and threw more tight window throws. His anticipation in large part hasn't been great. It's helped at times when playing with poor pass catching talent to keep the offense on schedule and make positive plays, but it has also limited offenses he's been in charge of at the NFL level. Edited May 30, 2021 by Mr Raider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Raider Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 Honestly though I still look back and get sad at that Christmas eve in 2016. The Carr we saw that year was the best version we had seen. He was as clutch as anyone that regular season, willing a decent offensive roster and terrible defensive roster to one of the best teams in the AFC alongside Mack making countless big plays. He was aggressive, made big plays, was efficient, had a great balance of risk and methodical. He made some huge tight window, WOW type throws. That came he came back in against Carolina with the glove was one of my most fond memories in the past 20 years of Raiders football. Had he not gotten hurt against the Colts and we won the following week against Denver I would have argued to the grave that he was the rightful MVP. As great as Ryan was, the situations were much more in favor of Ryan. Could would have done more with less and taken a much less talented (particularly experienced, elite talent) to 13 wins and a top 2 seed in the AFC. The injury made it much more cut and dry for Ryan though. I will forever wonder what type of noise we could have made in the playoffs. We would have had a lot of momentum, a young team that could surprise because they were too young to know they weren't supposed to be there, and we had everyone believing we were destined for a playoff run, and the trust that DC and Mack could make enough plays in the big moments to lead a comeback or seal a close win. Superbowl? Probably not. An AFC championship appearance though was firmly in play even if roster and talent wise we weren't that good. Some of those tight window throws that led to big plays may have been a result to less than ideal anticipation, but it was ultimately balanced out by having a guy like Crabtree that was sure handed and could make those contested catches. Honestly I think that type of player has been the thing Carr has missed most since 2016. I think it makes a world of difference in his performance and how good he can play. A lot of his current shortcomings to me though are and will probably forever will be entwined with the broken leg. His lack of willingness to hold onto the ball longer on occasion, use his feet to extend/make plays, his tendency to ignore big plays because they are longer developing and put him at risk, etc are all things that can easily have a direct link to that injury. I think all of that COMBINED with the deflating feeling, rust, the mental aspect of coming back from such a defeating injury when things were going so good led to the dip the next year, and then yet another rebuild that saw the entire roster get reshaped and stripped down to the studs. I was hot and cold on Del Rio, but I do think giving him one more season with a DC and company a year removed from the devastating injury (plus the back the next season) would have been the right play. I think with all the context favored in, a rebuild and totally new offense, supporting cast, purging of talent, etc was the exact opposite of what DC needed to rebound. He needed stability, reliability, familiarity, to let him focus on just getting healthy and getting over the mental hurdles that come with a serious injury. I'm not saying it would have resulted in some huge success, but I do think it would have helped DC play considerably better in 18 and 19 had that been done. I think forcing him into another HC and their vision, the total overhaul that comes with that, yet another offensive system so early in his career, and the lack of stability, chemistry and familiarity with his coaches and teammates on top of the injuries and trying to come back from that was just too heavy of a burden. I think a little more patience could have helped us see the DC we got last year a year or two early and we could have ended up with a DC closer (or with some luck better) than that 2016 version. Instead of entering into a string of years worth of debates on whether he's good enough or can be that guy again. Oh well. I haven't given up on DC. I think what he is currently is good enough to win a lot of games with. And I think with all the instability, injuries, rebuilding, etc, he's a prime candidate to continue to improve the next year or two and be a "late" bloomer. It's obviously not a lock and will depend on everyone else doing their jobs and developing, but DC has been the one constant in terms of play on the field, positivity, and desire to be here throughout his career and he's gotten very little of that in return from ownership on down. I'm pulling for him to break through as a player and team for that even more than everything else. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 18 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Do not get me wrong. I like Arnette but just like Karl Joseph I think we panicked and reached for him. Arnette can still be a really good CB but I believe the better value was Kinlaw and Jefferson. Absolutely. It was not my favorite pick. But at least he can be a good player in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Mr Raider said: Oh well. I haven't given up on DC. Pretty much agree with all that you said and would also throw in the twist of losing Mack right before the season also messed with his head I think. Being their with your boys is a big deal and those two were really close for being on opposite sides of the ball. That rarely happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Raider Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, G said: Pretty much agree with all that you said and would also throw in the twist of losing Mack right before the season also messed with his head I think. Being their with your boys is a big deal and those two were really close for being on opposite sides of the ball. That rarely happens. Definitely. Good point. It was always cool seeing Carr and Mack interact in the locker room and stuff after those big wins in 2016. They clearly had a deep bond and really believed coming from the same draft they were going to be the guys to turn this franchise around and build something special. Not only not working with a great teammate you were close to you also are having a real friendship altered. When it's someone of the talent level of Mack it definitely can (and did IMO) have a huge impact on the locker room and other leaders. Everything trading someone of Mack's caliber signifies about what is valued, where the team currently stands, and what the immediate future looks like and how far off that team would now be compared to where I'm sure Mack and Carr believed they were right before Mack was traded. Sports is more than just physical skills and on field production. A lot of things can make a huge impact mentally and such and that can have a huge ripple effect on everything else. Edited May 31, 2021 by Mr Raider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlenlyKenny Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 10 hours ago, Mr Raider said: Definitely. Good point. It was always cool seeing Carr and Mack interact in the locker room and stuff after those big wins in 2016. They clearly had a deep bond and really believed coming from the same draft they were going to be the guys to turn this franchise around and build something special. Not only not working with a great teammate you were close to you also are having a real friendship altered. When it's someone of the talent level of Mack it definitely can (and did IMO) have a huge impact on the locker room and other leaders. Everything trading someone of Mack's caliber signifies about what is valued, where the team currently stands, and what the immediate future looks like and how far off that team would now be compared to where I'm sure Mack and Carr believed they were right before Mack was traded. Sports is more than just physical skills and on field production. A lot of things can make a huge impact mentally and such and that can have a huge ripple effect on everything else. 2016 was a really great season, it was great to see our team make the playoffs one more time for the first time in such a long time. I'm still excited by that year and I hope we make it back. The chemistry between Carr and Mack was great and it builds a lot of positivity in the locker room when two of your best players communicate and are on the same page. I completely agree that sports is about more than just physical ability, great point there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Mr Raider said: Honestly though I still look back and get sad at that Christmas eve in 2016. Oh, man that is one of the great What Ifs! Totally agree that we had huge momentum, just a real good feeling and confident. Mack was as the top of his game too, Irvin was playing the robin role really well and Musgrave had the offence humming. I genuinely feel like we'd have made the AFC Championship game. If we do that who knows what follows, do we still let Musgrave go? Do we extend Mack sooner? Who do we now draft......... I just had a feeling about that year and remember feeling sick to my stomach when Carr got hurt. That could have been a real, real turning point but alas, it wasn't to be 🙂 Edited May 31, 2021 by Darbsk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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