College Football and Draft Discussion 2024

[DawgX]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

I don't mean to be a jerk, but if we draft a RT Round 1 if there's a franchise WR, EDGE, MLB, or even FS there, I'm going to throw a fit. We've got a LOADED OL and should probably look to plug that RT hole with an above average free agent. Baker leads the NFL the last 2 years in time to throw from a clean pocket (2.5 seconds) and we have 2 Pro Bowl/All Pro caliber running backs.

You know what's garbage? Our receiving corps. You know who we need to evaluate? Baker Mayfield.

Get him some receivers, and if he sucks, get someone else in 2023. If he rebounds and somehow inexplicably makes the leap to Top 10 next year because he's healthy and has weapons, and in the process figures out how to read a defense and perform under pressure, lock him up to a long term deal.

What we absolutely cannot have is "Well we don't know about Baker because our weapons suck, so let's use the Franchise Tag, refuse to make a decision, and kick the can down the road another year" during our window.

I'd definitely prefer to sign a proven RT rather than draft one, but I'm gonna guess it depends on how much that tackle would cost since we already have a ton of money tied up into the interior OL. Conklin is making a lot of money as well, but he's gonna be a FA after next season anyway.

Sucks. Conklin was easily one of the best FA acquisitions we've ever made and his career could be over. Feel for the dude.

But yes, drafting a WR high and signing at least an above average receiver is a must.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

This FO needs to start doing better work in the mid rounds (3-5)

In two years they’ve drafted the following; 

2020: Elliot, Phillips, Bryant, Harris

Elliot may be ok, he’s seeing more reps recently, but he’s really done nothing in nearly 2 years.  Phillips is tbd. Bryant is a reserve TE.  Not a bad pick.  Harris looks like a complete whiff.

2021: Schwartz, Togiai, Fields, LeCounte

Schwartz is young and fast, but thus far doesn’t look like an actual receiver or “football player”.  Togiai is buried behind a lackluster group of DT’s.  Fields has seen the field other than for ST that I can recall. LeCounte the same.

8 picks, not a single middling starter.  I don’t expect every mid rounder to be some diamond in the rough, but this is where you build depth and fill holes with competent (even if unspectacular) players.

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

This FO needs to start doing better work in the mid rounds (3-5)

In two years they’ve drafted the following; 

2020: Elliot, Phillips, Bryant, Harris

Elliot may be ok, he’s seeing more reps recently, but he’s really done nothing in nearly 2 years.  Phillips is tbd. Bryant is a reserve TE.  Not a bad pick.  Harris looks like a complete whiff.

2021: Schwartz, Togiai, Fields, LeCounte

Schwartz is young and fast, but thus far doesn’t look like an actual receiver or “football player”.  Togiai is buried behind a lackluster group of DT’s.  Fields has seen the field other than for ST that I can recall. LeCounte the same.

8 picks, not a single middling starter.  I don’t expect every mid rounder to be some diamond in the rough, but this is where you build depth and fill holes with competent (even if unspectacular) players.

Especially as the years go when we have to let some dudes walk out the door and start going the compensation pick route. There needs to be a transition plan with these mid-round guys to take over (gradually).

We really need EITHER Togiai OR Elliot to be a viable answer as a starter.

we really need EITHER Phillips (or Fields) OR LeCounte to be a viable starting LB or FS.

We need Schwartz to fill some type of role as a slot WR or deep threat 3rd/4th guy, or that's a complete whiff.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, MWil23 said:

Especially as the years go when we have to let some dudes walk out the door and start going the compensation pick route. There needs to be a transition plan with these mid-round guys to take over (gradually).

Yeah this is how the good franchises stay consistently competitive.

If you have to sign a FA at top of the market prices, well, good luck with that lol

Just now, MWil23 said:

We really need EITHER Togiai OR Elliot to be a viable answer as a starter.

Yep, one or the other, don’t need both to “hit”.  And by hit, just as you said, a “meh” starter. Doesn’t have to be a star, can’t be a liability.

Just now, MWil23 said:

we really need EITHER Phillips (or Fields) OR LeCounte to be a viable starting LB or FS.

I think we need one average starter and one viable depth guy.  LeCounte and Fields look like fringe roster dudes rn.

Just now, MWil23 said:

We need Schwartz to fill some type of role as a slot WR or deep threat 3rd/4th guy, or that's a complete whiff.

Right now he’s not even a decoy even with his speed. If I’m a DC I put him man up and give the corner a little cushion and dare him to whip my arse.  I don’t think he has the skills to beat pro corners consistently.  If he manages to make a play, cool, dare him to do it again.

Maybe a year working with Mayfield, the other receivers, learning the offense, etc and he improves enough to fill a role, but man, don’t love what I’ve seen.

 

Still salty af Nico Collins went 2 picks ahead of him.  

[buno67]

50 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

WR, EDGE, MLB,

 

50 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

You know what's garbage? Our receiving corps. You know who we need to evaluate? Baker Mayfield.

I would include DT. Our DL would be sexy if we kept Clowney and McDowell and added Davis or Leal.

def need to upgrade WR. It will do two things, allow us to proper evaluate Baker. If it proves Baker isn’t the guy, it sets up the next QB

[MWil23]

20 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Still salty af Nico Collins went 2 picks ahead of him.  

No doubt; he'd have been my pick as well. I also liked Tylan Wallace (went to Baltimore, looks "meh"), Amon Ra St. Brown (Detroit), and Jacob Harris who was a "combine guy" from UCF (L.A. Rams) who all went after him.

That said, I think we are seeing how other teams value WRs, which IMO is proof in today's league with the QB driven and rules aspects how we, if anything, should not count on guys falling anymore. I think as a whole, those days are over. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

21 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

No doubt; he'd have been my pick as well. I also liked Tylan Wallace (went to Baltimore, looks "meh"), Amon Ra St. Brown (Detroit), and Jacob Harris who was a "combine guy" from UCF (L.A. Rams) who all went after him.

That said, I think we are seeing how other teams value WRs, which IMO is proof in today's league with the QB driven and rules aspects how we, if anything, should not count on guys falling anymore. I think as a whole, those days are over. 

With how pass happy college has become, there’s a lot of decent receiving talent to be had.  Just gotta go get those guys.

We’ve spent a 3, 6, 6 under this regime.  You’re looking for depth or maybe an eventual starter in that range, which I think they may have done with DPJ.  It’s just time to find higher end starters.

And honestly, the ROI we’ve received from the 30 million spent on Juice and OBJ is almost inconceivable.  One “pretty good”, well rounded receiver will outproduce what the pair of them gave us this season for half the cost.

[MWil23]

7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

With how pass happy college has become, there’s a lot of decent receiving talent to be had.  Just gotta go get those guys.

IMO, a bunch of dudes who used to be RB are going the WR route, and it's something I've even seen at the HS level(s) now. 

7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

We’ve spent a 3, 6, 6 under this regime.  You’re looking for depth or maybe an eventual starter in that range, which I think they may have done with DPJ.  It’s just time to find higher end starters.

I could scream, going all the way back to the Sashi and Farmer days, when they were adamantly opposed to drafting WR high (except for Corey Coleman LOL LOL LOL), because it's beyond archaic.

7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And honestly, the ROI we’ve received from the 30 million spent on Juice and OBJ is almost inconceivable.  One “pretty good”, well rounded receiver will outproduce what the pair of them gave us this season for half the cost.

Throw in Hooper, and look at the money spent compared to the production output. It's beyond nauseating. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

IMO, a bunch of dudes who used to be RB are going the WR route, and it's something I've even seen at the HS level(s) now. 
 

Athletes in space bb.

10 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I could scream, going all the way back to the Sashi and Farmer days, when they were adamantly opposed to drafting WR high (except for Corey Coleman LOL LOL LOL), because it's beyond archaic.

I don’t think it has to be a first rounder, but it can’t be day 3 shots in the dark.

Day 2 is a great spot imo.  
 

The big thing for me with WR is that you need to be adding one al almost every draft, just like OL, DB, DL.

10 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Throw in Hooper, and look at the money spent compared to the production output. It's beyond nauseating. 

Yeah it’s rough. And maybe a Baker is part of the problem but all I’m judging these dudes on is what do they do when they get a decent pass thrown their way and it’s not good.

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Athletes in space bb.

It's funny. One of my jobs is (or was I guess) to see who their athletes are and where they lined up and what tendencies emerge. It's funny how inverting a slot, putting him in the backfield, or putting him out wide is a tell over 50% of the time.

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don’t think it has to be a first rounder, but it can’t be day 3 shots in the dark.

Day 2 is a great spot imo.  

Rounds 1 and 2 are the sweet spots IMO. Yes, there are still some hits in Rounds 3 and beyond, but those elite talents go away and getting them the ball in space becomes moot, because they're likely either hybrid TE athlete types or pure wideouts.

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The big thing for me with WR is that you need to be adding one al almost every draft, just like OL, DB, DL.

This is my biggest issue and point of contention. We've never made that effort.

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah it’s rough. And maybe a Baker is part of the problem but all I’m judging these dudes on is what do they do when they get a decent pass thrown their way and it’s not good.

It could be an all encompassing storm, but both are leaving some major meat on the bone right now.

[Bonanza23]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I don't mean to be a jerk, but if we draft a RT Round 1 if there's a franchise WR, EDGE, MLB, or even FS there, I'm going to throw a fit. We've got a LOADED OL and should probably look to plug that RT hole with an above average free agent. Baker leads the NFL the last 2 years in time to throw from a clean pocket (2.5 seconds) and we have 2 Pro Bowl/All Pro caliber running backs.

You know what's garbage? Our receiving corps. You know who we need to evaluate? Baker Mayfield.

Get him some receivers, and if he sucks, get someone else in 2023. If he rebounds and somehow inexplicably makes the leap to Top 10 next year because he's healthy and has weapons, and in the process figures out how to read a defense and perform under pressure, lock him up to a long term deal.

What we absolutely cannot have is "Well we don't know about Baker because our weapons suck, so let's use the Franchise Tag, refuse to make a decision, and kick the can down the road another year" during our window.

I should have been more specific. I’d draft an LT, move Willis to RT.  Considering Conklin may never play again it might be the best move.  Again if he’s the best player there. I think wr is really deep and we can get a good one in round 2. Having said that if they feel they can get an RT later in the draft I’d be good going that route too. 

[NudeTayne]

7 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

I should have been more specific. I’d draft an LT, move Willis to RT.  Considering Conklin may never play again it might be the best move.  Again if he’s the best player there. I think wr is really deep and we can get a good one in round 2. Having said that if they feel they can get an RT later in the draft I’d be good going that route too. 

I was considering this as well. If a guy we see as elite at LT is there for us, I wouldn't hate that pick and move Wills. I still want a WR pretty high, though. This is one more reason to sign a guy like Michael Gallup, for the draft flexibility.

[Kiwibrown]

One of my concerns with Conklin is that his future might be at guard. 

Odds are the patella affects him on going. He isnt a great pass blocking rt.

[bruceb]

22 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

I’d take a (an?)lb.

Interesting.

I do not know of a formal rule of grammar but my rule is to use "an" if the spelling of the word it modifies begins with a vowel. (E.g., an elephant, eel, ermine, etc.).

Just sounds weird otherwise...doesn't flow.

[bruceb]

9 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

I should have been more specific. I’d draft an LT, move Willis to RT.  Considering Conklin may never play again it might be the best move.  Again if he’s the best player there. I think wr is really deep and we can get a good one in round 2. Having said that if they feel they can get an RT later in the draft I’d be good going that route too. 

Makes all the sense in the world.