BayRaider Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: But now, they punish teams that do that. Before, you sell out to stop Henry, they try to pass and fail, so you keep selling out to stop Henry. Now, teams selling out to do that actually benefits Tennessee because they can take advantage. They have a QB that can run play action and throw deep. That can check out of plays, read the run blitz, and call something to counter. Henry without Tannehill, the Titans are a mediocre at best football team. Henry with Tannehill is a super bowl contender. That's a huge difference. Huge. They act like it's any competent QB with Henry, which is laughable and not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 The delta in supporting cast + play-caller between Mahomes and Rodgers is negligible. The only people who bring it up are Aaron Rodgers fans. Not even Packers fans. Aaron Rodgers fans. Rodgers is benefitting from absolutely ELITE OL play and has, arguably, the best WR in the league, a very good running game, and the most efficient TE (not best, but definitely most efficient) TE in the league. Honestly, there's probably a better argument that Rodgers has a better supporting cast. The OL play is THAT good. That being said, Rodgers numbers would be otherworldly right now if our #2 WR didn't have the yips. Easily several hundred yards and a couple/few TDs lost on passes that hit MVS in the hands/chest this season. Every QB deals w/ that - but there have been some enormous head-shakers from MVS this season. Regardless, it's an absolute non-factor in the MVP race. Will be an exciting finish to see who edges it out. Rodgers vs CAR (26), TEN (30), CHI (11) pass-ranked defenses Mahomes vs NO (2), ATL (19), LAC (20) pass-ranked defense 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans_Matt Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 46 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Is there a site that tracks that? That would be very interesting to look at and yeah I would also agree with that. I'm doing the best with the stats I have access to lol Nope. But after Baker Mayfield throws 4 TD's against the #1 defense in the NFL he will be I'll make sure of it. I pretty sure Warren Sharp's website tracks this information, but I believe you have to pay for the service. I received a free copy of his offseason book, and it had this information in there for every team for the full 2019 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Just now, Titans_Matt said: I pretty sure Warren Sharp's website tracks this information, but I believe you have to pay for the service. I received a free copy of his offseason book, and it had this information in there for every team for the full 2019 season. I know certain sites track how often teams run formations on both offense and defense, but I'm not sure (like Jakuvious said), how often teams face X personnel when in Y personnel on offense, you know? Like, to his point, I want to know how often the Titans run jumbo formations and then see stacked boxes vs. other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 52 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: ehhhhh I don't think so. A playoff team, certainly. And yeah, they're a more dangerous team now but they would be a dangerous team with literally any mediocre QB back there. We're comparing Tannehill to actual trash. None of those previous QB's are even in the NFL anymore lol you are describing marcus mariota lol (who is...very much still in the nfl???) without tannehill we'd be lucky to have 7 wins this year. he's the difference between a mediocre, .500 or sub-.500 team and contending for the division title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, -Hope- said: you are describing marcus mariota lol (who is...very much still in the nfl???) without tannehill we'd be lucky to have 7 wins this year. he's the difference between a mediocre, .500 or sub-.500 team and contending for the division title. Man, I totally forgot he got picked up by the Raiders and is their backup now. Anyways, Mariota is not a "mediocre" QB, he was downright awful, as were the guys before him. When I think of mediocre, I mean guys like Goff or Mayfield or Jimmy G. You could plug those guys into this system and more than likely find similar results. I mean heck, before Tannehill got to TEN he was the epitome of average. I won't disagree that he's the difference between the old Titans and new Titans, though - but that kinda goes without saying. You went from awful QB play to pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Tk3 said: Most bizarre MVP argument I've ever heard But I don't hate it.... its pretty silly.... about the same as arguing the micro- minutiae around who is a better MVP candidate between Mahomes and Rodgers in 2020Rodgers needs two hands to tie his shoes !Mahomes only uses one hand and a thumb !!! He's clearly the leader !!! Co-MVP is most probably the correct answer here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: Huge. They act like it's any competent QB with Henry, which is laughable and not true. avtually no one said that, so thatd be a strawman. i believe i call tannehill a game manager whose capable of doing more, thers actually not that many of those in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightime Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, DannyB said: Cool, bulk stats. Okay, and over the course of a 16 game season Peyton Manning threw for the most yards. Guess what? I don't think it's the best QB season ever. Last year Jameis Winston threw for more yards than Mahomes ever has in a season. Was his season better? Jesus christ trying to have a rational conversation with chiefs fans is gonna be a goddamn nightmare for the next decade. Mahomes already is IMO one of the truly all-time great QBs to ever play the game but that still won't be enough for them. Those guys didn’t win though. Mahomes is passing like crazy, has no running game, a defense ranked below Aaron Rodgers, yet won all those games (and they were close games because the defense isn’t playing well) Yards isn’t the most important stat, but there’s a big difference when a guy on a 12-1 team is the NFL leading passer, as opposed to a stat compiler on a 4-8 team. All yards aren’t equal I watch every game and KC is only winning because Mahomes is averaging 385 yards a game over the last 6 contests. Edited December 15, 2020 by Nightime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, Nightime said: Those guys didn’t win though. Mahomes is passing like crazy, has no running game, a defense ranked below Aaron Rodgers, yet won all those games (and they were close games because the defense isn’t playing well) Yards isn’t the most important stat, but there’s a big difference when a guy on a 12-1 team is the NFL leading passer, as opposed to a stat compiler on a 4-8 team. I watch every game and KC is only winning because Mahomes is averaging 385 yards a game over the last 6 contests. Our D has allowed 50 points fewer than the Packers D has this year. We've allowed more yards, but the yards per play is identical, it's mostly a function of us not having a running game, so the opposing team gets more time/plays/drives. We are a bit worse on third down as well, so that plays a role. I don't think there's a meaningful difference between the supporting casts. I think those who say Mahomes benefits way more than Rodgers dramatically overblow it. Mahomes has a legitimate claim to MVP, if he finishes better than Rodgers, but we don't need to resort to the whole, downplaying the team as a whole to prop up Mahomes. Both teams have middling defenses. Both teams have great offensive supporting casts. Green Bay's defense is probably better on a consistent performance basis, but our D generates more turnovers, and allows fewer points as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 7 hours ago, Nightime said: Those guys didn’t win though. Mahomes is passing like crazy, has no running game, a defense ranked below Aaron Rodgers, yet won all those games (and they were close games because the defense isn’t playing well) Yards isn’t the most important stat, but there’s a big difference when a guy on a 12-1 team is the NFL leading passer, as opposed to a stat compiler on a 4-8 team. I watch every game and KC is only winning because Mahomes is averaging 385 yards a game over the last 6 contests. Peyton Manning? Didn't win? Didn't win what? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Arguments for Mahomes 4208 Passing Yards vs 3685 for Rodgers 8.5 YPA vs 8.2 YPA for Rodgers 12-1 Record vs 10-3 record Arguments for Rodgers 69.6 Comp% vs 68.4% for Mahomes 6 more TD and 1 fewer INT TD% of 8.7% vs 6.6% (combination of more TD and fewer attempts) Lesser tools around him (1 elite and very questionable others, vs Mahomes with 2 elites and some strong WR depth) I'm leaning Rodgers Both absolutely pass the eye test and would be easy MVP in most years But I gotta lean Rodgers through 13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightime Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, notthatbluestuff said: Peyton Manning? Didn't win? Didn't win what? Peyton Manning won MVP that year, but some analysts don’t consider it the best QB season ever. But he’s not who I was talking about. No one is currently having a year quite like 2013 Manning I was mainly talking about yardage leaders who didn’t make the playoffs, like 2018 Roethlisberger and 2019 Winston. Edited December 15, 2020 by Nightime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 46 minutes ago, Tk3 said: Arguments for Mahomes 4208 Passing Yards vs 3685 for Rodgers 8.5 YPA vs 8.2 YPA for Rodgers 12-1 Record vs 10-3 record Arguments for Rodgers 69.6 Comp% vs 68.4% for Mahomes 6 more TD and 1 fewer INT TD% of 8.7% vs 6.6% (combination of more TD and fewer attempts) Lesser tools around him (1 elite and very questionable others, vs Mahomes with 2 elites and some strong WR depth) I'm leaning Rodgers Both absolutely pass the eye test and would be easy MVP in most years But I gotta lean Rodgers through 13 If you are breaking it out like that Rodgers has a much better offensive line this year. Combined with Adams and Aaron Jones that should pretty much make the supporting cast argument a wash in this comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 so far, Rodgers....but its razor thin. If KC destroys NO, i may swing back to Mahomes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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