Week 3 GDT: Raiders (2-0) @ Patriots (1-1)

[BayRaider]

9 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Ahhhh FFS. Ruggs is out.

 

This bodes very bad for us. I really feel Ruggs and Brown were very much needed for this game. Now all Bellichick has to do is take out is Waller and have a bend but don’t break Run D against Jacobs. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by BayRaider

[dante9876]

33 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

That's the funny thing with box score scouting...

I guess the Colts have a superior one since they've only allowed 85.5ypg? Or does the fact that they've allowed 4.23 and 4.26 in both games negate that? 

You can't have it both ways. They're either a top 5 Run D or they aren't. The Raiders gave up 4.05 ypc against the Panthers and 6.45 against the Saints when you add in that Deonte Harris ran 1 time for 11 yards. 

Stats can be manipulated in all sorts of ways when you're playing with averages. If a team is giving up 6.45 ypc, how in the world would the opponent not have a 100 yard rusher? Only 112 rushing yards across 4 players? That literally makes zero mathematical sense as it would reflect 17 carrys, not 19. 

We've kept two of the top RBs under 100 yds, limited their overall effect, and kept them from busting long gains. I don't care what PFF or any statistical analysis says, I call that a good Run defense. When they have Indianapolis' Run D as top 5 and us at 26...yeah, right. 

You keep saying we limited two of the best rbs and kept them under 100 yards. Kamara didnt run for 100 yards one time last season. Holding him under 100 yards rushing isnt some great thing.  He had 80 yards rushing and 90 something yards receiving and 2 tds. His typical game vs most opponents. Not sure where the legend of kamara being a top rusher came from. 

[Turnobili]

Ruggs was drawing a lot of attention from the Saints D even though he wasn't productive. His absence just makes it a lot easier for the Patriots to try to limit Waller without worrying as much about losing help over the top.

I think the burden mostly falls on Agholor now to threaten them deep, and there will be some burden on Bryan Edwards to win on the boundary... though he might be getting the Gilmore treatment, so I'm not sure.

Trent Brown is still out, though it looks like both Good and Sam Young will be good to go. Remains to be seen if we start Good at LT and Young at RT, or if they just really like Good at RT and want to play Simpson. I personally would rather go with the former. I think Simpson could be abused by BB. 

[ronjon1990]

10 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

You keep saying we limited two of the best rbs and kept them under 100 yards. Kamara didnt run for 100 yards one time last season. Holding him under 100 yards rushing isnt some great thing.  He had 80 yards rushing and 90 something yards receiving and 2 tds. His typical game vs most opponents. Not sure where the legend of kamara being a top rusher came from. 

I don't care what his receiving yards were, the discussion was about our Run D. Stick to the topic at hand. 

Are you saying our Run D has been bad? If so, how so? Because you can box score averages all day long, but that hardly equates to the on-field performance. As I pointed out, statistically the Colts have a top 5 Ru D, but have been worse than us against the run on paper in terms of opponent production, on the field, and in their outcomes.

[dante9876]

Just now, ronjon1990 said:

I don't care what his receiving yards were, the discussion was about our Run D. Stick to the topic at hand. 

Are you saying our Run D has been bad? If so, how so? Because you can box score averages all day long, but that hardly equates to the on-field performance. As I pointed out, statistically the Colts have a top 5 Ru D, but have been worse than us against the run on paper in terms of opponent production, on the field, and in their outcomes.

No I do not think our run defense has been good. I think game scripts has lead teams to not be able to run the ball as much. Also this is a passing league. I think our pass defense isnt great either so they chose to pass instead of run sometimes. I dont care what colts number say. Cause I haven't been able to watch their games. I've watch ours and I can say for certain our run defense hasn't been stout. 

 

And the topic hand was pointing out kamara hasn't ran for 100 yards in his last 17 games or so. But you pumping it like it's some great success by our run defense. 

[BayRaider]

40 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

Ruggs was drawing a lot of attention from the Saints D even though he wasn't productive. His absence just makes it a lot easier for the Patriots to try to limit Waller without worrying as much about losing help over the top.

I think the burden mostly falls on Agholor now to threaten them deep, and there will be some burden on Bryan Edwards to win on the boundary... though he might be getting the Gilmore treatment, so I'm not sure.

Trent Brown is still out, though it looks like both Good and Sam Young will be good to go. Remains to be seen if we start Good at LT and Young at RT, or if they just really like Good at RT and want to play Simpson. I personally would rather go with the former. I think Simpson could be abused by BB. 

Agreed. One of the reasons the Raiders drafted Ruggs is that you always have to respect the deep game no matter what. That’s why if you look at the Texans Offense numbers with Fuller in the game the past few years, they are easily a Top 3 Offense, and without him they fall to the Early 20’s. It’s crazy. It’s because they respect the deep game. 
 

Same thing with Ruggs. The past couple years teams aren’t scared of the Raiders going deep, I’d say most of that is on Carr, some on personnel, and some on Gruden, but now that we have Ruggs, they are not playing shallow against Carr anymore. 
 

However, with Ruggs out, Bellichick is absolutely going to defend the short passing game and take Waller out. I really think the only way we can win this one is Power Running with Jacobs, control the ToP like the Saints, and lots and lots of Play Action Passing. 

[MrOaktown_56]

Expect to see a lot of Agholor and Renfrow in this game. And Jacobs out of the pass game.

Hopefully Ruggs will be good to go for next week.

[ronjon1990]

20 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Expect to see a lot of Agholor and Renfrow in this game. And Jacobs out of the pass game.

Hopefully Ruggs will be good to go for next week.

Could be good. I want to see more of Agholor. 

I get that Jacobs wants to be involved in the pass game. But at the same time, I don't want to run him into the ground. Lets see what Ag, Renfrow, and maybe even Jones can contribute.

[ronjon1990]

37 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Agreed. One of the reasons the Raiders drafted Ruggs is that you always have to respect the deep game no matter what. That’s why if you look at the Texans Offense numbers with Fuller in the game the past few years, they are easily a Top 3 Offense, and without him they fall to the Early 20’s. It’s crazy. It’s because they respect the deep game. 
 

Same thing with Ruggs. The past couple years teams aren’t scared of the Raiders going deep, I’d say most of that is on Carr, some on personnel, and some on Gruden, but now that we have Ruggs, they are not playing shallow against Carr anymore. 
 

However, with Ruggs out, Bellichick is absolutely going to defend the short passing game and take Waller out. I really think the only way we can win this one is Power Running with Jacobs, control the ToP like the Saints, and lots and lots of Play Action Passing. 

He's barely contributed, please stop trying. The only people who would say otherwise are Raiders fans who have an affinity for making up what can't actually be quantified and pounding their fist on the table that they're right. 

[agarcia34]

Ruggs news suck. Feel like that’s a kick in the nuts. Hamstring issues is not a good thing. 
 

Excited to see Nelson get some more snaps. 
 

Time to pound that rock and drain that clock 

[agarcia34]

Ruggs can only get open which he has done plenty. He can’t pass and throw it to himself. Just sayin 

[BayRaider]

51 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

He's barely contributed, please stop trying. The only people who would say otherwise are Raiders fans who have an affinity for making up what can't actually be quantified and pounding their fist on the table that they're right. 

You have no idea what you are talking about. With Ruggs in the game, he is still massively contributing, because teams can't sell out against the short passing game. It's the same thing with Fuller and Texans. That is a completely different team with Fuller out the past few years, even though Fuller's stats aren't very good. I remember reading an article a while back that the Texans Offense is Top 5 in the League statistically when Fuller is playing, and in the 20's when he's not, making a bold statement that Fuller is more important than Hopkins if healthy. Why? Because you can't sell out against the short/medium passing game with Fuller in the game. Always, always have to respect the deep ball.

 

Same thing with Chiefs and Hill. Did you watch the Chiefs Offense in games without Hill last year? Very average. With Hill, they were the best in the league easily, even if Hill didn't get any catches.

Edited September 25, 2020 by BayRaider

[NYRaider]

4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

I don't care what his receiving yards were, the discussion was about our Run D. Stick to the topic at hand. 

Are you saying our Run D has been bad? If so, how so? Because you can box score averages all day long, but that hardly equates to the on-field performance. As I pointed out, statistically the Colts have a top 5 Ru D, but have been worse than us against the run on paper in terms of opponent production, on the field, and in their outcomes.

Josh Jacobs is averaging 26 carries for 90.5 yards (3.5 ypc) and 1.5 TD's per game and everyone here has praised his performance. 

Our run defense is allowing 24.5 carries for 120.5 yards (4.9 ypc) and 2 TD's and multiple posters have said that our run defense has been good. 

McCaffery averaged 86 yards per game last season and put up 97 yards and 2 TD's against us and people act like it's a good performance? Come on man. Kamara was absolutely murdering our run defense before the Saints abandoned the run as the game went on. We've given up almost 5 yards per carry through 2 games, that's not good, like at all. 

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

2. We held Christian McCaffrey to 97 yards on 23 carrys. He had a long of 15. The guy is the best RB in football. Take away the long run, we held him to a pedestrian 3.72 ypc. 

3. We then had another top tier RB to deal with in Alvin Kamara, who we held to 79 yds on 13 carrys. He had a long of 21. Take away the long, he averaged 4.8.

If you take away Josh Jacob's 14 yard run's against the Saints/Panthers, on the season he'd have 50 carries for 153 yards or an average of 3.07. So that means the Saints and Panthers shut him down too, right? You can't have it both ways. So why are so many people praising Jacobs and his performance? 

[Totty]

3 hours ago, agarcia34 said:

Ruggs can only get open which he has done plenty. He can’t pass and throw it to himself. Just sayin 

This feels like there Derek Carr argument in reverse. 😅