dante9876 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 18 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: If we finished drives well, considering we're already 7th in points per drive, we'd basically be a top 3 offense carrying a bottom 3 defense (31st in points per drive). Not really a recipe for success. Are we 7th in points cause our offense is good or cause our defense is bad. Or a combination of both. Watch the Broncos and browns game. Those the 2 games where we can say for certain that the defense showed up. The offense ran the ball a bunch those games and played behind the defense. Carr didn't do anything in those games. Very similar was the first half of falcons and dolphins game. Offense had plenty of chances to take those games over but didn't. We all want a better defense and know it's the priority. But to say with a avg defense we would automatically be in playoffs is short sided. Game flow or script matters. Nothing in the last 8 years or so of gruden coaching shows that. It shows he isn't very good in December and that with a decent defense he gets even more conservative anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 22 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: We are still lacking a RZ, playmaking, physical WR. Not having that type of Wr is hurting our RZ numbers big time. D's focus on Waller and our other WR's are below average with size/physicality and making contested catches in tight spaces. That limits what we can do in the RZ big time. i was hoping Edwards would show that he can be that type of threat this year but that never happened. No doubt D need to be priority number 1 and finding a stud 3T to get interior pressure is critical. Edwards never got a chance. And the one chance he got he was interfered with. Also waller isn't even on the field for some of our redzone plays which is insane to me. But it's true. Also when teams like Philly bmore, Denver, and jags are ahead of you. It has to be more than just a big wr. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolni Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: We are still lacking a RZ, playmaking, physical WR. Not having that type of Wr is hurting our RZ numbers big time. D's focus on Waller and our other WR's are below average with size/physicality and making contested catches in tight spaces. That limits what we can do in the RZ big time. i was hoping Edwards would show that he can be that type of threat this year but that never happened. No doubt D need to be priority number 1 and finding a stud 3T to get interior pressure is critical. Waller, Moreau and Edwards is enough size to me. Renfrow is a great route runner and then you have the Ingold-Jacobs duo too... Should be enough for a good RZ O IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Rolni said: Waller, Moreau and Edwards is enough size to me. Renfrow is a great route runner and then you have the Ingold-Jacobs duo too... Should be enough for a good RZ O IMO Clearly that is your opinion. Edwards and Moreau never see the field so the coaching staff's opinion differs from yours. Jacobs and Ingold at the goal line are good but beyond 10 yards they have not been effective and are not legit receiving threats in the red zone. We are very predictable in the RZ and that is due to a lack of threats that preform well in tight spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Clearly that is your opinion. Edwards and Moreau never see the field so the coaching staff's opinion differs from yours. Jacobs and Ingold at the goal line are good but beyond 10 yards they have not been effective and are not legit receiving threats in the red zone. We are very predictable in the RZ and that is due to a lack of threats that preform well in tight spaces. Which I guess you don't find weird since Moreau scored 4 tds last season in the redzone. But witten and ingold is better options. Its got to be lack of talent not lack of coaching. I mean witten on fade routes at the 12 are great ideas. Must be no talent problem. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 4 hours ago, dante9876 said: Are we 7th in points cause our offense is good or cause our defense is bad. Or a combination of both. Watch the Broncos and browns game. Those the 2 games where we can say for certain that the defense showed up. The offense ran the ball a bunch those games and played behind the defense. Carr didn't do anything in those games. Very similar was the first half of falcons and dolphins game. Offense had plenty of chances to take those games over but didn't. We all want a better defense and know it's the priority. But to say with a avg defense we would automatically be in playoffs is short sided. Game flow or script matters. Nothing in the last 8 years or so of gruden coaching shows that. It shows he isn't very good in December and that with a decent defense he gets even more conservative anyway. So you’re gonna cherry pick 2 games where we got turnovers and sacks? We’re still at the bottom of the league in both categories. Gruden has been trash since the 2nd KC game. I’m not debating that. But if we’re talking about investing resources, they should go into the defense because it’s an incredible liability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: So you’re gonna cherry pick 2 games where we got turnovers and sacks? We’re still at the bottom of the league in both categories. Gruden has been trash since the 2nd KC game. I’m not debating that. But if we’re talking about investing resources, they should go into the defense because it’s an incredible liability. Yeah but nobody is saying invest on offense. It just when people mention the offense people yell defense defense defense. All raiders fans know we need defense. I question if this is a playoff team with an avg defense. Gruden redzone efficiency and December record doesn't scream that. I don't want to draft all defensive players. I want to get good football players and not reach for need. Reaching for need is one of the reasons defense is bad. At 16th we should take a fs, dt de or linebacker. Whoever is the best player at one of those positions. We need dt bad. But not bad enough to reach for one instead of taking a de that is better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 7 hours ago, Rolni said: Waller, Moreau and Edwards is enough size to me. Renfrow is a great route runner and then you have the Ingold-Jacobs duo too... Should be enough for a good RZ O IMO I think some of the red zone inefficiency comes from losing Incognito plus Trent Brown being out and really not playing that great once back..... Good and Simpson haven’t been great as run blockers in short distance. We can’t just line up and smash the ball Zack Crockett style for 2-3 tough yards. Thus we get cute with play calling (UGH 🤢🤮🤢) and that doesn’t ever work out. Plus.... Jacobs is definitely playing hurt IMO. It would have been nice to see Edwards see some corner jump ball fades.... we have no big physical WRs other than Edwards to play in the RedZone. I’d like to add another big WR for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 6 hours ago, dante9876 said: Which I guess you don't find weird since Moreau scored 4 tds last season in the redzone. But witten and ingold is better options. Its got to be lack of talent not lack of coaching. I mean witten on fade routes at the 12 are great ideas. Must be no talent problem. Lol. It's both. Calling endless rollouts to the right for Witten is as bizarre a RZ playcall as I've seen in a while. We call plays that don't fit the skill of the personnel we put out there. We shouldn't be trotting Witten out there like that, and if we must, we shouldn't be calling designed plays for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 If Richie retires, staff deems Brown isn’t worth it (he isn’t), and can’t re-sign Agholor we certainly have some issues. I think most of our draft capital needs to go defense though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, BayRaider said: If Richie retires, staff deems Brown isn’t worth it (he isn’t), and can’t re-sign Agholor we certainly have some issues. I think most of our draft capital needs to go defense though. I expect nothing in the way of Brown getting cut, released, etc. We went through this with TW, DC, and Gabe. My prediction is he'll be on the roster next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Totty said: I expect nothing in the way of Brown getting cut, released, etc. We went through this with TW, DC, and Gabe. My prediction is he'll be on the roster next year. Get ready for 7-12 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Get ready for 7-12 games. I'm not saying I agree with him being on the roster... I'm just saying I think he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Totty said: I'm not saying I agree with him being on the roster... I'm just saying I think he will. With the noises that Gruden is making I’m not so sure, seems like their patience with Brown is wearing thin. Now that he doesn’t have any guarantees left, it would be more of a surprise to me if he stays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 We're an offensive team, with a "offensive guru"🙄 as head coach. We spend twice the amount of money on offense than defense. We clearly prioritized that side of the ball over the other and I don't know if that will change under Gruden. So simply being a good offense that can move the ball but struggles in the rz and not consistent through December isn't good enough to me if that is going to be our indentity. You strive to be elite on that side of the ball with all the resources put there. So yeah the offense is good but they aren't above reproach just because the defense is a flaming fail. Carr had a pretty good year but I don't view him as our unquestioned, locked in franchise QB for the next 5+ years. Kinda remind me of the Chiefs few years ago. They had a bad defense but a good offense led by Alex Smith, who had a career year much like Carr. The obvious choice was to get better on defense but instead they dared to be great and drafted Smith's replacement. I wouldn't be opposed to daring to be great if offense is going to be our indentity. You can build a complimentary defense to an elite o. I wonder if Gruden likes any of the QBs coming out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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