BigTrav Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Nabbs4u said: However I'd still take Dan Marino 1984 over any QB season since. Especially against this pass wacky, defensive touch/flag football they call the NFL these days. Don't knock it, it produced a Superbowl for you. Finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, BigTrav said: Don't knock it, it produced a Superbowl for you. Finally. If anything you just proved my point. You put Marino in today's NFL where the QB and his Recievers can't be touched? He'd put up video game numbers too. He'll he did , almost 40 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: He hasn't played long enough to warrant that spot, plan and simple. If he suffers a catastrophic injury derailing the rest of his career, would he be on that overall list? No! As impressive as he has looked and given what he has accomplished thus far he is on pace to (1 day) be on that list. However I'd still take Dan Marino 1984 over any QB season since. Especially against this pass wacky, defensive touch/flag football they call the NFL these days. Depends on how long of a list we're making. Sure, top 5, top 10, no way. He's more MVPs or more superbowls or 50k yards away from those guys. But you start getting to like a top 25 list, or maybe a little further, I think it'd be hard not to. Because at some point in that list, you're going to be putting a guy with less MVPs, and less superbowl wins, and maybe even less first team all-pro selections. Do you rank Warren Moon of Philip Rivers or Dan Fouts higher, for playing at a lower level for longer? Because that's all some of those guys would have. Like, as a Chiefs fan, he's already the greatest QB in franchise history, for me. He's passed Len Dawson, at this point. At some point, peak does have to have priority over longevity. Otherwise, you get far enough down the list, you're ranking Matt Stafford or Jeff Garcia or Neil O'Donnell over Patrick Mahomes in this hypothetical list. It's a fun argument to choose where to draw that line, but that line does have to be drawn somewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, wackywabbit said: When CAN you? If I put Trevor Lawrence and C.J. Stroud on the list of all-time great QBs, what exactly are you or anyone else going to do about it? I'll put Tim Tebow on the list. You have no power here. Thanks 3rd grade teacher that makes kids say "MAY I go to the bathroom?" Edited January 25, 2021 by childofpudding 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 It will be him or Brady as Goat in like 10 years unless some god tier QB comes out of the draft. which is why the SB is huge. 6 to 2 or 7 to 1 is a massive swing. people think it’s impossible but if he wins his 2nd this year I think he will get 5 or more. this game is massive 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_W Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Russel Wilson had this. will Mahomes take that last crucial step and will he still be in mvp conversations for years to come as the team he's on gets depleted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Jakuvious said: Depends on how long of a list we're making. Sure, top 5, top 10, no way. He's more MVPs or more superbowls or 50k yards away from those guys. But you start getting to like a top 25 list, or maybe a little further, I think it'd be hard not to. Because at some point in that list, you're going to be putting a guy with less MVPs, and less superbowl wins, and maybe even less first team all-pro selections. Do you rank Warren Moon of Philip Rivers or Dan Fouts higher, for playing at a lower level for longer? Because that's all some of those guys would have. Like, as a Chiefs fan, he's already the greatest QB in franchise history, for me. He's passed Len Dawson, at this point. At some point, peak does have to have priority over longevity. Otherwise, you get far enough down the list, you're ranking Matt Stafford or Jeff Garcia or Neil O'Donnell over Patrick Mahomes in this hypothetical list. It's a fun argument to choose where to draw that line, but that line does have to be drawn somewhere. Exactly, that is the debate. If Mahomes goes to 3 conference championships, wins two SBs and an MVP and then never plays another snap, where should he be on the list? Is top 10-15 really that unfathomable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Mahomes = Elway with Walsh instead of Dan Reeves. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Asciimo said: he's quickly approaching steve young tier if he aint there already This. Another year like this and he's on Steve Young's tier, and I have Young as a top 10 QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 8 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Mahomes = Elway with Walsh instead of Dan Reeves. Honestly since he was hobbled by injury he looked a lot like Rodgers out there. Working the pocket masterfully, and hitting wide open targets with amazing arm talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideRight Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) When some longevity kicks in and his supporting cast changes a bit along with his coaching staff. Mark Sanchez made 2 straight AFCCG's in his first 2 years with a far weaker supporting cast and coaching staff. Mahomes himself is very good. A couple more years, it won't even be a question IMO. But KC has been a great team. Last year, Matt Moore looked like a starting caliber QB in his 2 game stint as a starter. Chad Henne looked competent this year even playing primarily with backups (speaks to depth). Neither are Mahomes, but it's pretty clear the Chiefs would be a contender even without Mahomes. He certainly makes them better, so the "system QB" label isn't really fair (Brady made the Pats better, but guys like Matt Cassel also looked decent in that system, and nobody questions Brady). But nobody was putting Brady up as an all-time great 3, 4 years in either. Only real knock on Mahomes I see is longevity, and that will come naturally. If he doesn't have a massive flop or low point, he's got it in the bag. But right now? Too soon to never say never considering his current circumstances. Let's revisit in 2 years. Edited January 25, 2021 by ronjon1990 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 12 hours ago, Jakuvious said: At some point, peak does have to have priority over longevity. Otherwise, you get far enough down the list, you're ranking Matt Stafford or Jeff Garcia or Neil O'Donnell over Patrick Mahomes in this hypothetical list. It's a fun argument to choose where to draw that line, but that line does have to be drawn somewhere. My own metric (that no one else apparently uses) is "was this player among the best at his position for 5 yrs?" With allowances for players who had careers shortened by injury. Someone like Neil O'Donnell was NEVER among the top 6 QBs, much less 2 or 3, I don't care how long he played. Mahomes has been on the short list of "best 2 or 3 QBs in the league" for 3 yrs now. And that's with us being in the era of Peak QB. If he stays at this level through 2023 - and there's no reason he wouldn't - he jumps up onto top 10 lists. Much like Marino did - by the time 1990 rolled around, he was on GOAT lists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 9 hours ago, childofpudding said: Exactly, that is the debate. If Mahomes goes to 3 conference championships, wins two SBs and an MVP and then never plays another snap, where should he be on the list? Is top 10-15 really that unfathomable? I'd say his amazing 3 year run would land him somewhere between 20-25 if he never played another snap after the Superbowl. It's worth at least 6-7 years of other "solid franchise QB's" careers (think Stafford or Ryan) and probably on par with 4-5 of "really good franchise QB's" careers (Rivers, for example). So the impact can off-set the lack of longevity. If he does it for 4-5 years straight (2021, 2022), he definitely bumps up into the top 15 by default. Obviously, that trajectory would be absolutely insane, but even at a slowed down pace, by year 6 or 7 he flirts with top 10-12 all-time. That's pretty dang impressive and worthy of high praise. To crack the top 10, he has a ways to go yet, but he doesn't have to have top 10 status for this run to be appreciated. For someone to only play 7 years (assuming he doesn't drop off a cliff going forward and suck) and already be flirting with the top 10 can't be understated and gives him plenty of credit and praise. But for now, I'd say he's in the top 20-25 all-tine. And for only starting 3 years, that's highly impressive. And like I said, his impact thus far will have a compounding effect that shortens the longevity requirement in contrast with other highly regarded QBs who didn't have the same accolades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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