TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, ripsean21 said: he couldn’t win with Calvin Johnson, Sue and a top level quad!!! I think this is crazy so we hold not winning against a Dak or Romo or Manning but we can’t for Stafford? It's important to note how the old rookie pay scale crippled the Lions financially. They had Calvin (2nd), Stafford (1st) and Suh (2nd) all making huge rookie contracts. When it came time to try and keep that core together, they couldn't afford to retain Suh without destroying their cap. In addition, there were years with Calvin where there was a void at #2 WR. (Anyone remember Kris... Durham?) He was often criticized for throwing into double and triple coverage at Calvin, but, really, he had little else at times. LA will give Stafford his best supporting cast of his career, and it isn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, ripsean21 said: So Devin white, vea, Winfield JR, mike evans, Wirfs, David, Barrett. Hill Kelsey, thorn hill, Snead, Chris Jones, Mahomes Edwards helaire, Harmon, Fischer, no draft picks are seriously over rated!!! They were 7-9 in 2019 with essentially the same team and now they're in the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, ripsean21 said: he couldn’t win with Calvin Johnson, Sue and a top level quad!!! I think this is crazy so we hold not winning against a Dak or Romo or Manning but we can’t for Stafford? Revisionist history. None of those Lions teams were ever considered to be that good. And they weren't. The best part about those teams was the passing game. In 2011 they went 10-6 with the 23rd ranked scoring defense and their leading rusher having 390 (!!) yards. They scored 28 points in the playoffs. The Saints scored 45. The only team during his time there that could be considered to be good overall is the 2014 Lions. But at no point did he ever have a "top level squad". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, TL-TwoWinsAway said: It's important to note how the old rookie pay scale crippled the Lions financially. They had Calvin (2nd), Stafford (1st) and Suh (2nd) all making huge rookie contracts. When it came time to try and keep that core together, they couldn't afford to retain Suh without destroying their cap. In addition, there were years with Calvin where there was a void at #2 WR. (Anyone remember Kris... Durham?) He was often criticized for throwing into double and triple coverage at Calvin, but, really, he had little else at times. LA will give Stafford his best supporting cast of his career, and it isn't even close. I get that but to say we can’t fault Stafford for winning when literally every other QB is judged on that same scale was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) I love how once teams don’t get a guy their fanbase becomes all negative - “I’m so relieved” takes. When 2 days before they are posting GIF’s of Stafford in their team colors. I would have loved for him to be in Denver. I won’t veer off that position just because he landed elsewhere. If the medicals cleared him to project 4+ years of peak performance I would have signed off on 1.9 plus Lock. I applaud Detroit for being creative - if SF or Den offered their 2021 first for Stafford time will tell if that was a better offer. But either way I see this as a big upgrade on QB for LAR. It’s just a matter of whether it pays off to a SB title - which would silence the critics on this deal (Snead’s past deals and ill-timed early extensions with Goff and Gurley are another story). Or if they don’t get there and Stafford declines early (injury is the risk imo not skill decline at age 34-37 with his arm talent and baseline throwing skills). Edited January 31, 2021 by Broncofan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, iknowcool said: Revisionist history. None of those Lions teams were ever considered to be that good. And they weren't. The best part about those teams was the passing game. In 2011 they went 10-6 with the 23rd ranked scoring defense and their leading rusher having 390 (!!) yards. They scored 28 points in the playoffs. The Saints scored 45. The only team during his time there that could be considered to be good overall is the 2014 Lions. But at no point did he ever have a "top level squad". This freakin' guy. Strong post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: I love how once teams don’t get a guy their fanbase becomes all negative - “I’m so relieved” takes. When 2 days before there are GIF’s of Stafford in their team colors. I would have loved for him to be in Denver. If the medicals cleared him to project 4+ years of peak performance I would have signed off on 1.9 plus Lock. I applaud Detroit fir being creative - if SF or Den offered their first for Stafford time will tell if that was a better offer. But either way I see this as a big upgrade on QB for LAR. It’s just a matter of whether it pays off to a SB title - which would silence the critics on this deal (Snead’s past deals and ill-timed early extensions with Goff and Gurley are another story). Or if they don’t get there and Stafford declines early (injury is the risk imo not skill decline at age 34-37 with his arm talent and baseline throwing skills). I’m very thankful we didn’t trade for Stafford!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, ripsean21 said: I get that but to say we can’t fault Stafford for winning when literally every other QB is judged on that same scale was my point. Well, I mean, sure: fault Stafford for not winning. Just don't ignore the dumpster fire of an organization and abysmal supporting casts when you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, ripsean21 said: Hill Kelsey, thorn hill, Snead, Chris Jones, Mahomes Edwards helaire, Harmon, Fischer, no draft picks are seriously over rated!!! This is another great point. QB success is almost entirely determined by where they are selected. Mahomes walked into a situation with a great offensive minded coach in Reid, a very good OL, and great weapons around him with guys like Kelce, Hill, Watkins, and Hunt. Which is why I am very excited to see how Stafford plays in a great system with a great offensive minded head coach, a strong running game, good OL, and good group of pass catchers. Not to mention an elite D that can bail him out. We saw what a change of scenery did for Tannehill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: Well, I mean, sure: fault Stafford for not winning. Just don't ignore the dumpster fire of an organization and abysmal supporting casts when you do. I’m not ignoring it. But I’m also seeing the talent y’all had and I’m going to agree the coaching staff didn’t maximize the talent but there were good players there. Sadly you guys were playing in a tough devision back when the Pack had Rogers at his deepest teams and when Chicago had a defense and cutler and Marshall. It was just a tough time to have the team y’all did in that division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimuraGod Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Stafford turns 33 next week. He could very well have another 5-7 years of quality production. I think long term it may not be as disastrous as first thought. Gives the Rams a 5 year window in my opinion. Detroit got a great deal too, I actually think both teams have done well with the Rams overpaying but still not a whitewash like some have made out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nzd07 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: And the Buccaneers hadn't won a playoff game since 2003 until they acquired Brady, Fournette Gronkowski, JPP, Suh, and Barrett the last couple of off-seasons to push their team over the top. Hell they had almost entirely the same exact team last season and coaching staff last year yet only won 7 games. You’re forgetting the difference here. The bucs signed most of those players. The only thing they lost was cap space. The Rams just gave up 3 picks, 2 in the first round. They’ll be good next year, sure. Maybe even in 2022. But what’s their long-term plan going to be? They have a big contract QB with minimal draft capital. That’s bad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, ripsean21 said: I’m not ignoring it. But I’m also seeing the talent y’all had and I’m going to agree the coaching staff didn’t maximize the talent but there were good players there. Sadly you guys were playing in a tough devision back when the Pack had Rogers at his deepest teams and when Chicago had a defense and cutler and Marshall. It was just a tough time to have the team y’all did in that division. But, even then... talent? Sure, Calvin and Suh were elite players, but what else? No running game? An average-at-best offensive line? (I felt they were average-at-best. Most Lions' fans argued they were far worse.) The team had a few great players and, really, not a lot else. If you made the "All Lions Team" for the last 12 years, with the best players from those teams on one roster, the 2021 Rams roster is probably better. Think about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: This is another great point. QB success is almost entirely determined by where they are selected. Mahomes walked into a situation with a great offensive minded coach in Reid, a very good OL, and great weapons around him with guys like Kelce, Hill, Watkins, and Hunt. Which is why I am very excited to see how Stafford plays in a great system with a great offensive minded head coach, a strong running game, good OL, and good group of pass catchers. Not to mention an elite D that can bail him out. We saw what a change of scenery did for Tannehill. This is my thing I’m not trying to trash Stafford I love the guy I love McVay trust me I’m excited. But I believe in the draft first philosophy. I’m very excited to see the Rams. I just think we’re ignoring the future implications of this move. Trust me for Stafford I’m excited this guy deserves this shot I’m sorry if I sounded like a hater I think both teams ultimately got what they wanted. I just am fearful for the Rams knowing LT’s generally are 1st round dependent and rarely fall out of that round. And it just puts them 3 more years away while their LT is currently 38 or 39. I don’t dislike the move I’m just discussing topic points. And I’m just happy Washington didn’t have to give up those assets the way I view draft capital just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ripsean21 said: I’m very thankful we didn’t trade for Stafford!!! To be fair, you also were on the train that doubted whether your team should go after Stafford with your 1st. That's not who I'm referring to, more a statement in general - applies to Denver, SF, Indy, WFT, etc. But your & other's concern on Stafford not playing well beyond 1-2 years, it's not actually clear that's the case. He hasn't show physical signs of decline on the field yet. His arm talent actually ages very well (as it's not the average/below average talent that we see with Eli / Rivers and even Matt Ryan, who's started to show very clear cracks this year). And the injuries are ones that shouldn't pose a long-term risk. It's just that's his greatest character asset (toughness) could also be hiding a more chronic issue that puts age 35-38 play at risk - but we don't know about it. If there isn't, I'm quite confident he can keep peak-level play for age 33-37. That would be a massive W for LAR. Edited January 31, 2021 by Broncofan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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