Stafford traded to the Rams for Goff, multiple FRPs

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

3 minutes ago, RUGmen said:

Stafford has had a Top 10 defense once in his entire career with Detroit.

 

Absolutely. And there might not even be one Top 10 running game.

[Gmen]

26 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Remember the Jared Goff = Peyton Manning thread

Pretty hilarious comparison in retrospect considering Peyton was brilliant at reading and manipulating defense, meanwhile there were rumors that coaches have to read the defense for Goff. 

[ripsean21]

3 minutes ago, RUGmen said:

Stafford has had a Top 10 defense once in his entire career with Detroit.

 

Rankings don’t mean the talent on the roster was maximized. Dude I’m not knocking him. If you check my explanations I’ve talked Stafford up to his play but I won’t give him a pass for accomplishments because no other player gets them. Players always get judged by success Reguardless of circumstances trust me their are guys who would be sure fire HOF players in other situations it’s just how it is.

[RUGmen]

4 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

Rankings don’t mean the talent on the roster was maximized. Dude I’m not knocking him. If you check my explanations I’ve talked Stafford up to his play but I won’t give him a pass for accomplishments because no other player gets them. Players always get judged by success Reguardless of circumstances trust me their are guys who would be sure fire HOF players in other situations it’s just how it is.

I never claimed he didn’t have solid offensive talent around him, which he did. Calvin Johnson alone is more offensive talent than QBs will play with their entire careers.

However, claiming he’s played with all this defensive talent is meaningless. He doesn’t play on defense or coach it. Fact is, the defense was never anything top 10 worthy outside of 2014. I’m not saying Stafford is elite or anything. He’s never been on the Brady/Peyton/Rodgers/Brees level, but he’s a very good QB that can thrive on a team like LA with a great offensive HC and an elite defense.

Edited January 31, 2021 by RUGmen

[Ragnarok]

One thing that would worry me if I was a Rams fan is that it seems like they are gonna have studs and duds without those mid-level guys that make up the majority of the roster.

Yes, Donald is a beast, but if he is the only viable pass rusher on the DL, you're going to have issues.

And they won't have 1st round picks or the cap space to fill in those gaps.

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, BofaDeez54927 said:

There are no signature wins on Stafford's resume.

But he's clearly capable and that is my point.  Yes, he could have played better down the stretch in 2013 and it would have helped secure them a playoff birth, but that Lions team was still mediocre.  They were average all-around.  And nobody sat there and thought, "man, that Lions team underachieved."  7-9 is about what I would have guessed for them from what I can remember from the offseason before (they went 4-12 the season prior).  

I just think sometimes the expectations for QBs, both on this forum and in the media, can be unreasonable.  Just because you aren't a Rodgers or a Brady who can excel and win with anyone around them doesn't mean you aren't capable of winning big games or leading a team far in the postseason.  How many signature wins did Palmer have before he went to the Cardinals?  How many signature wins did Alex Smith have before the 49ers improved drastically?  

I have no reason to think of Stafford any less than I do those guys.  Stafford can get it done, especially if the situation around him is good.  And it is in Los Angeles.  Even more-so if they can get more out of their run game more consistently in 2021 than they did last year.  I'm really excited to see them play this year because I think Stafford can open up the Rams passing game in a way that Goff hasn't been able to do (consistently) ever since Gurley's regression.

I think my biggest problem with this trade is I like Jared Goff.  His decision-making needed to improve and he's got some limitations, but he's shown in the past what he's capable of.  Maybe I'm clinging on to the past days too hard when it comes to him, but it is just crazy to me how good Goff looked to me in 2018 (and no, it wasn't just scheme, it wasn't just Gurley... Goff's accuracy was on another level) to now the Rams having to give away picks just to get rid of him.  But if I'm wrong about Goff and he was never all that good, then that would make me excited as a Rams fan to see what McVay could do with Stafford.  

Every time I think about this situation it just screams Palmer/Cardinals to me.  I really think this is going to work out for them.  Doesn't necessarily mean a Super Bowl as anything can happen but they will be a playoff team the next 2 years.

Edited January 31, 2021 by iknowcool

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

Woah. Matthew Stafford and Russell Wilson are the same age.

[Turnobili]

I think Stafford is in a tier above the Cousins/Carr/Goff types. I don't know if the gulf is multiple first rounders, but I think he's more talented than those guys, so yeah I'd have him in the top 10. Similar to Dak imo.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Turnobili

[Teen Girl Squad]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Draft capital is extremely overrated. The Rams trading for Ramsey has paid huge dividends and I assume this trade will as well. Brady was also in an extremely good position his entire career in New England. When has Stafford ever had a great head coach or team around him? 

That's the big takeaway I've had from this trade. Across the board I've been stunned at how much football fans thought the Rams got "fleeced." The Rams have talked at Sloan about how draft picks (particularly high ones) are overvalued. No one is saying the draft is useless and its not like the Rams are trading all of their picks for middle linebacker depth or something nonsensical. You can disagree with the value somewhat but people always mentally fill in "X pick" with "Y All-pro superstud" at "Z position" with that Z position being whatever position the person wants it to be at any given time.

A poster on Reddit looked at the 21-32 range of picks (where the Rams picks were) over the past 5 years and these were the players who have made a probowl.

2016 - Kenny Clark
2017 - Evan Engram, TreDavious White, TJ Watt
2018 - Lamar Jackson
2019 - Josh Jacobs
2020 - Justin Jefferson

While probowls aren't everything (LOL Engram) this means that these late FRPs have approx a 12% high end hit rate or a 1.5% that this is the coup that most people are mentally checkboxing right now, and that assuming its at meaningful positions. I only write this to show that people really need to get their head out of the clouds and start looking at these things more pragmatically.

[ripsean21]

13 minutes ago, RUGmen said:

I never claimed he didn’t have solid offensive talent around him, which he did. Calvin Johnson alone is more offensive talent than QBs will play with their entire careers.

However, claiming he’s played with all this defensive talent is meaningless. He doesn’t play on defense or coach it. Fact is, the defense was never anything top 10 worthy outside of 2014. I’m not saying Stafford is elite or anything. He’s never been on the Brady/Peyton/Rodgers/Brees level, but he’s a very good QB that can thrive on a team like LA with a great offensive HC and an elite defense.

And I agree he will play well there. 

[Rich7sena]

8 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

I think Stafford is in a tier above the Cousins/Carr/Goff types. I don't know if the gulf is multiple first rounders, but I think he's more talented than those guys.

He's in the same tier as those guys in my mind with Tannehill having the best year of the bunch in 2021.

Overall, I think it's: Prescott, Tannehill, Stafford, Carr, Ryan, Cousins, Mayfield, Garoppolo, Goff. Their rankings reshuffle depending on their situations. The jury is still out on some of the young guys like Murray and Herbert so I think they're apart from this list.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Rich7sena

[BucsDraftGeek47]

I just dont know how on the Rams side, you get enough ppl in 1 room and say "yeah i think this is a good move, lets move forward with this trade"

like WHAT?

yes Stafford is better than Goff

but come on

you might as well just cut him and eat the cap hit and sign someone else from this FA QB crop for McVay to tutor

if it would have been Goff and one 1st , no one would have really questioned it  but you add another 1st and 3rd

 

Rams got fleeced as far as draft capital goes

im sure the Rams will be very good next year with Stafford but it wasnt worth these many picks

[ripsean21]

1 minute ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

I just dont know how on the Rams side, you get enough ppl in 1 room and say "yeah i think this is a good move, lets move forward with this trade"

like WHAT?

yes Stafford is better than Goff

but come on

you might as well just cut him and eat the cap hit and sign someone else from this FA QB crop for McVay to tutor

if it would have been Goff and one 1st , no one would have really questioned it  but you add another 1st and 3rd

 

Rams got fleeced as far as draft capital goes

im sure the Rams will be very good next year with Stafford but it wasnt worth these many picks

That’s all I was trying to say. It’s nothing against the player. It’s the haul. 

[LaFellSBXLIXMVP]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

The matty ice hate is getting unreal in here, dude is a baller/gamer. Yes, the last 3 seasons have been meh from a team success perspective. But Detroit is an absolute dumpster fire organization that has won 1 playoff game in 63 years. 

When you look back at Stafford's previous 7 seasons the Lions went above .500 in 4 of them, 7-9 in two of them, and 4-12 in one of them. With a 57-55 record overall, slightly above .500. With the JV squad, terrible coaches, and terrible management. 

For comparisons sake. 

Goff went 9-6 in 2020: Only sacked 23 times, #10 rushing game in the NFL, #1 defense in the NFL in yards allowed and points allowed. 

Stafford went 9-7 in 2017: Sacked 47 times, #32 rushing game in the NFL, #27 defense in the NFL in yards allowed and #21 defense in points allowed. 

 

There's a better angle that makes Stafford justice on that throw but I don't know to embed tweets. That wasn't the typical no look pass to a guy sitting at the end of a route. That was no-look anticipation throw. Amazing stuff.

https://twitter.com/__Macmane__/status/1354515272313389056?s=20

[Awsi Dooger]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Which is why I am very excited to see how Stafford plays in a great system with a great offensive minded head coach, a strong running game, good OL, and good group of pass catchers. Not to mention an elite D that can bail him out. 

Maybe there's more upside than most believe. I thought Stafford was the best prospect I had ever seen coming out of high school. I mentioned that on several sites. Then he never quite lived up to that either at Georgia or with the Lions. Somebody in a recent comparison thread did a great job with Stafford likened to Archie Manning. Absolutely. Both maneuvered around well with a big arm but the tunnel vision line drive tendencies and lack of ideal touch equated to lower production than talent level suggested.

I don't doubt that McVay likewise always viewed Stafford as untapped potential. Of course, once you reach 33 the track record is substantial and virtually zero examples of severe upward slope.

I had to laugh at the scoffs at Stafford and Goff within the same tier. Sorry, but #10 range and #20 range are absolutely the same tier. Both are Crowd, within the designations of Cream, Crowd and Crap. That's the mistake fans always make with the NFL, placing absurd weight on current form and current reputation within that range of a 6-10 team or 10-6 team. Both are essentially the same. That is Crowd range. It's the reason gamblers have a gold mine taking points with one Crowd team against another Crowd team. And it's no different with quarterbacks. I would love this trade for the Rams if Stafford were unquestionably a Top 6 or maybe even Top 8 quarterback. Those are the outer limits of Cream. And once you are Cream that is separation from the pack. Markedly more margin for error. 

But Cream quarterbacks are never available, or almost never available given Fran Tarkenton and apparently DeShaun Watson. McVay grasps the narrow window and is gambling that Stafford is Cream in disguise, essentially like a very good but not great horse moving into Bob Baffert's barn.

I can't blame McVay, even if I doubt it will work. Once this window is gone you start painfully over again, unless you have a Top 2 or 3 quarterback. The window is always open with those guys.