2021 off-season discussion

[StLunatic88]

Just now, Flounch said:

But i don't think Mcvay took pleasure in micromanaging Goff...i don't think everyday when he wakes up, he said to himself, well today i'm gonna to make a hell out of Jared...

McVay is obviously a control freak, I would bet he takes pleasure in micromanaging EVERYTHING in this football team

 

1 minute ago, Flounch said:

I think he would have like to give Jared some freedom but he saw the limited upside in him unlike Wolford by example. 

Upside in John Wolford? This lie just needs to stop around here. He was HORRIBLE when playing. His own defense produced more TDs than him.

[NVRamsFan]

I think all of us know and admitted Goff needed to get better and didn't. But what irritates me is McVay to some completely escapes this without a scratch. 2018 the Rams offense and Jared were amazing. In that offseason he failed to retain Saffold and Sullivan so that he could pay Gurley and Cooks. He never replaced either and our offense suffered.

He eventually got rid of Gurley and Cooks then Goff and has ate a ton of cap space hindering the ability to put a better team around the QB. He escapes in some peoples mind without any criticism. 

He's supposedly to some a Tight End guru having had success with 2 TE sets that other people drafted yet hasn't been able to develop a TE on his own. He's still called a TE guru by some. 

We've seen he has issues coaching up his QB and Goff takes the heat but he escapes without a scratch. 

He's done wonders for our team as a whole but he's not infallible like some would have you believe. When we stop paying our top cap hits to this guy called Dead Cap we'll be better off. When he starts coaching up guys we'll be a better team. If he can ever get the OL back to the 2018 level we'll be a better team. Until then he's a good coach that has done a lot of good for our team but he's also screwed up a lot of things. And Jared isn't the fall guy for all of it but he certainly is responsible for his own actions on the field. Off the field he was a great guy from everything we've seen and like all former Rams players I wish him the best on his new team unless we're playing them then I hope we destroy them. But I will keep an eye on their games when the Rams aren't playing. Like with Gurley, Quinn, Cooks etc etc etc. 

[BStanRamFan]

7 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

McVay is obviously a control freak, I would bet he takes pleasure in micromanaging EVERYTHING in this football team

He hired Wade Phillips as his DC so he could focus on the offense in his first year. He then hired Staley to handle the defense because he saw a similar understanding and dedication to his craft. He then hired veteran DC Raheem Morris to...again run the defense.

"McVay would be able to get his message, no matter how tough, to Goff through the quarterbacks coach, ensuring no disruption to the relationship.

But as the 2019 season progressed without the desired results, McVay began to coach Goff more directly and their dynamic began to slowly unravel."

So sounds like he wasn't micromanaged until he had to be. Started with communicating through the QB room and then in later 2019 when he didn't see what he wanted from Goff, he stepped in. 

[LeotheLion]

58 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

He couldn't bench him cause of the contract he received. I think it was pointed out in the article. 

A coach that preaches consistency is key and has taken the blame for his team in the media for years and we question this guys leadership? We haven't had a losing season in 4 straight years, we went to a superbowl, and we're questioning his leadership? Jesus. 

McVay didn't stop "trying". He stopped babying his QB and let him sink or swim. 

He could have done whatever he wanted. There wasn't a clause in the contract that he had to start every game. 

But this article wasn't about what the media sees in press conferences. It was what was happening behind the scenes. People that are successful can have bouts of bad leadership. Kobe not shooting during the Suns game is a great example. Kobe also let teammates sink or swim. It doesn't make sense to let teammates sink when the goal is to win. All you do is waste a year to prove a point. McVay proved his point. But he was definitely a bad leader in doing so. 

 

[NYRamsFan88]

47 minutes ago, NVRamsFan said:

I think all of us know and admitted Goff needed to get better and didn't. But what irritates me is McVay to some completely escapes this without a scratch. 2018 the Rams offense and Jared were amazing. In that offseason he failed to retain Saffold and Sullivan so that he could pay Gurley and Cooks. He never replaced either and our offense suffered.

He eventually got rid of Gurley and Cooks then Goff and has ate a ton of cap space hindering the ability to put a better team around the QB. He escapes in some peoples mind without any criticism. 

He's supposedly to some a Tight End guru having had success with 2 TE sets that other people drafted yet hasn't been able to develop a TE on his own. He's still called a TE guru by some. 

We've seen he has issues coaching up his QB and Goff takes the heat but he escapes without a scratch. 

He's done wonders for our team as a whole but he's not infallible like some would have you believe. When we stop paying our top cap hits to this guy called Dead Cap we'll be better off. When he starts coaching up guys we'll be a better team. If he can ever get the OL back to the 2018 level we'll be a better team. Until then he's a good coach that has done a lot of good for our team but he's also screwed up a lot of things. And Jared isn't the fall guy for all of it but he certainly is responsible for his own actions on the field. Off the field he was a great guy from everything we've seen and like all former Rams players I wish him the best on his new team unless we're playing them then I hope we destroy them. But I will keep an eye on their games when the Rams aren't playing. Like with Gurley, Quinn, Cooks etc etc etc. 

After what I’ve seen from Gerald Everett, I sure as heck won’t be calling him a TE guru. 
Higbee flashes something nice for two or three games, then fades into the shadows. 
 

 

[jrry32]

3 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

Sounds like he was doing that the first few years and eventually just became frustrated when he didn't develop as they had hoped.. I get what you're saying, but professional sports is not the industry to get away with ," Sorry Demoff, I can't bench Goff. I don't want to crap on his best efforts".

In the real world, your approach is correct. In professional sports, it's perform or we will find someone else who will.  On the flipside of positive reinforcement, some people actually respond well to being critiqued. It turns into a fight or flight mentality and they rise to the occasion. "Tell me I can't do something and watch what I do". Unfortunately, that was not the best way to handle Goff. Even though McVay is so young, he has an old school approach. Newer players have a different mentality and a diff way of how they want to be handled. 

If a person can't hack it, I won't hesitate to let them go. But what I'm not going to do is allow my frustration to undermine their work product. It's not helping anybody. If I can't lead/teach them the right way, that falls on me. McVay feeling that Goff can't hack it is his opinion. He has a right to it. But he hurt the team when he stopped teaching and leading Goff the right way. @JonStark is right. You can't let your frustrations hurt the team.

If McVay felt Goff couldn't do the job, he should have just went to Wolford. Deciding that McVay wasn't going to do his job because he was fed up with Goff hurt the Rams as a whole.

2 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

He couldn't bench him cause of the contract he received. I think it was pointed out in the article. 

A coach that preaches consistency is key and has taken the blame for his team in the media for years and we question this guys leadership? We haven't had a losing season in 4 straight years, we went to a superbowl, and we're questioning his leadership? Jesus. 

McVay didn't stop "trying". He stopped babying his QB and let him sink or swim. 

McVay is the HC. He can bench anybody any time. As for the contention that he stopped babying his QB, that's not true either. Because the article points out that Goff felt McVay was still micromanaging him. What McVay stopped doing was mentoring and leading with regard to his QB. He got fed up, took his ball, and went home. That's a failing on his part. And he's going to need to learn from that.

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, NVRamsFan said:

He's done wonders for our team as a whole but he's not infallible like some would have you believe. When we stop paying our top cap hits to this guy called Dead Cap we'll be better off. When he starts coaching up guys we'll be a better team. If he can ever get the OL back to the 2018 level we'll be a better team. Until then he's a good coach that has done a lot of good for our team but he's also screwed up a lot of things. And Jared isn't the fall guy for all of it but he certainly is responsible for his own actions on the field. Off the field he was a great guy from everything we've seen and like all former Rams players I wish him the best on his new team unless we're playing them then I hope we destroy them. But I will keep an eye on their games when the Rams aren't playing. Like with Gurley, Quinn, Cooks etc etc etc. 

McVay has been a great HC thus far. But this year will say a lot about him. He let much of his coaching staff leave over the past two seasons. He now has "his QB." He better deliver.

[BStanRamFan]

8 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

If McVay felt Goff couldn't do the job, he should have just went to Wolford. Deciding that McVay wasn't going to do his job because he was fed up with Goff hurt the Rams as a whole.

McVay is the HC. He can bench anybody any time. As for the contention that he stopped babying his QB, that's not true either. Because the article points out that Goff felt McVay was still micromanaging him. What McVay stopped doing was mentoring and leading with regard to his QB. He got fed up, took his ball, and went home. That's a failing on his part. And he's going to need to learn from that.

I actually full agree with this. He should of benched Goff earlier in the year and not worry about the optics of it post-contract. I hold McVay accountable for that. But I understand it's not a good look and also cripples his trade value in the offseason.

I don't see Dan Campbell as a hand holding type of coach. It will be very interesting to see how Goff responds with full control of his offense. 

[jrry32]

Just now, BStanRamFan said:

I actually full agree with this. He should of benched Goff earlier in the year and not worry about the optics of it post-contract. I hold McVay accountable for that. But I understand it's not a good look and also cripples his trade value in the offseason.

I don't see Dan Campbell as a hand holding type of coach. It will be very interesting to see how Goff responds with full control of his offense. 

If that's what he felt was best for the team, yeah, he should have.

[Flounch]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Upside in John Wolford? This lie just needs to stop around here. He was HORRIBLE when playing. His own defense produced more TDs than him.

Obvioulsy, we didn't see the same game. But it's okay, i know what i saw and it wasn't horrible like you said. 

If it was horrible, i don't think Mcvay would have benched Goff for him in the PO. 

[MDY10]

I also agree Mcvay didn’t handle it all well. He should have benched him and called it a day. I’m sure Goff had low confidence and when Mcvay stopped “building him back up” after every screw up that he felt he was given up on. I can see why that would mess someone up but at the same time I don’t know how it doesn’t light a fire under you as a competitor in the highest stage. Mcvay screwed that up though. Goff doesn’t seem like the type of kid to handle that kind of heat and Mcvay should have known and taken a different approach.
That said, I almost don’t blame him for losing his patience. I don’t think Goff handled pressure well at all and he needs to realize it’s the NFL. He has arguably the best job in the world and in life we would all get fired if we didn’t do well at work after being told what to do over and over and over. A lot of growing up to do for Goff. A lot of learning to do for Mcvay. Im not surprised though, I think he will get that fatherly vibe to a young QB when he is older. If that makes sense. Not sure how to explain what I’m thinking here. In your early 30s you treat someone Goffs age way differently than you would when you’re 50. 
 

i always wonder how someone like BB would have treated Goff in this situation. 

[RamPackFan]

3 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

I actually full agree with this. He should of benched Goff earlier in the year and not worry about the optics of it post-contract. I hold McVay accountable for that. But I understand it's not a good look and also cripples his trade value in the offseason.

I don't see Dan Campbell as a hand holding type of coach. It will be very interesting to see how Goff responds with full control of his offense. 

Cripples trade value? nah...How did that work for Wentz? 

[LeotheLion]

1 hour ago, MDY10 said:

I also agree Mcvay didn’t handle it all well. He should have benched him and called it a day. I’m sure Goff had low confidence and when Mcvay stopped “building him back up” after every screw up that he felt he was given up on. I can see why that would mess someone up but at the same time I don’t know how it doesn’t light a fire under you as a competitor in the highest stage. Mcvay screwed that up though. Goff doesn’t seem like the type of kid to handle that kind of heat and Mcvay should have known and taken a different approach.
That said, I almost don’t blame him for losing his patience. I don’t think Goff handled pressure well at all and he needs to realize it’s the NFL. He has arguably the best job in the world and in life we would all get fired if we didn’t do well at work after being told what to do over and over and over. A lot of growing up to do for Goff. A lot of learning to do for Mcvay. Im not surprised though, I think he will get that fatherly vibe to a young QB when he is older. If that makes sense. Not sure how to explain what I’m thinking here. In your early 30s you treat someone Goffs age way differently than you would when you’re 50. 
 

i always wonder how someone like BB would have treated Goff in this situation. 

I agree with a lot of this. But the bolded I think is because you gain experience and different perspectives with age. 

[BStanRamFan]

5 minutes ago, RamPackFan said:

Cripples trade value? nah...How did that work for Wentz? 

He went for a 3rd and conditional 2nd. They originally thought they could get a 1st.

If we benched Goff after the 2nd 49ers game or Jets game in favor of Wolford, I feel his value would of taken a hit. Doesn't matter now. 

[LeotheLion]

1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

He went for a 3rd and conditional 2nd. They originally thought they could get a 1st.

If we benched Goff after the 2nd 49ers game or Jets game in favor of Wolford, I feel his value would of taken a hit. Doesn't matter now. 

It's a conditional first for Wentz. And if he stays healthy he'd likely hit the benchmarks. If not it conveys as a 2nd.