Covid-19 News/Discussion

[TVScout]

Pfizer to seek OK for 3rd vaccine dose; shots still protect.

Quote

On Thursday, Pfizer’s Dr. Mikael Dolsten told The Associated Press that early data from the company’s booster study suggests people’s antibody levels jump five- to 10-fold after a third dose, compared to their second dose months earlier............In laboratory tests, blood from several dozen people given their first dose of the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines “barely inhibited” the delta variant, the team reported in the journal Nature. But weeks after getting their second dose, nearly all had what researchers deemed an immune boost strong enough to neutralize the delta variant — even if it was a little less potent than against earlier versions of the virus.......The French researchers also tested unvaccinated people who had survived a bout of the coronavirus, and found their antibodies were four-fold less potent against the new mutant. But a single vaccine dose dramatically boosted their antibody levels — sparking cross-protection against the delta variant and two other mutants, the study found......The lab experiments add to real-world data that the delta variant’s mutations aren’t evading the vaccines most widely used in Western countries, but underscore that it’s crucial to get more of the world immunized before the virus evolves even more...........Researchers in Britain found two doses of the Pfizer vaccine, for example, are 96% protective against hospitalization with the delta variant and 88% effective against symptomatic infection.

https://apnews.com/article/europe-coronavirus-pandemic-science-health-34c3f2536747a7c08980d7359a8de70c

[Xenos]

2 hours ago, TVScout said:

Pfizer to seek OK for 3rd vaccine dose; shots still protect.

https://apnews.com/article/europe-coronavirus-pandemic-science-health-34c3f2536747a7c08980d7359a8de70c

Both the FDA and CDC seem to be downplaying the need for booster shots right now.

[WizeGuy]

Just now, Xenos said:

Both the FDA and CDC seem to be downplaying the need for booster shots right now.

I may be in the minority here, and I'm a layman, so my opinion should always be taken with a grain of salt, but for the purpose of an interesting discussion:

I really, really think Pfizer is genuinely making this recommendation based on the data they've seen from the Israel Ministry of Health- that antibodies wane after 6 months. They specifically cite that data set, and said that a majority of fully vaxxed infections are coming from healthcare workers who have been fully vaxxed for 6 or more months. The CDC, FDA, experts online, etc....have not had a chance to view that data yet as it has not been released, but should be released soon.

Also, let's not forget that Israel is Pfizer's lab rat for real world data. They were the first to bring data on effectiveness against asymptomatic infections. Many people are saying Pfizer is doing this for financial gains, and maybe so- but this data is coming from a legit source, imo- the Israel Ministry of Health. 

@ramssuperbowl99 what's your opinion on that matter? I know a lot of experts are questioning Pfizer, but none of them have read through the data yet.

I'm considering just going to CVS and getting a third dose of Pfizer since I have a two year old at home, have been vaxxed for 7 months, and want to be able to go to bars and the such with little worry of bringing the virus home to my son.

[Xenos]

13 minutes ago, WizeGuy said:

I may be in the minority here, and I'm a layman, so my opinion should always be taken with a grain of salt, but for the purpose of an interesting discussion:

I really, really think Pfizer is genuinely making this recommendation based on the data they've seen from the Israel Ministry of Health- that antibodies wane after 6 months. They specifically cite that data set, and said that a majority of fully vaxxed infections are coming from healthcare workers who have been fully vaxxed for 6 or more months. The CDC, FDA, experts online, etc....have not had a chance to view that data yet as it has not been released, but should be released soon.

Also, let's not forget that Israel is Pfizer's lab rat for real world data. They were the first to bring data on effectiveness against asymptomatic infections. Many people are saying Pfizer is doing this for financial gains, and maybe so- but this data is coming from a legit source, imo- the Israel Ministry of Health. 

@ramssuperbowl99 what's your opinion on that matter? I know a lot of experts are questioning Pfizer, but none of them have read through the data yet.

I'm considering just going to CVS and getting a third dose of Pfizer since I have a two year old at home, have been vaxxed for 7 months, and want to be able to go to bars and the such with little worry of bringing the virus home to my son.

I think Pfizer and the FDA/CDC are doing what they’re doing for legitimate reasons. This happens sometimes believe it or not lol. I agree with you about Pfizer’s reasoning. I also think you’re right about the FDA/CDC waiting on more data before acting. Both agencies may want to avoid alarming people, or affect the vaccination rate even more by mentioning boosters until everything has been properly reviewed on their end.

If you get a third shot, is the presumption that it’ll act like a booster? Maybe it’ll be fine. But I would rather wait to make sure it’s safe and actually does what it needs to do first before actually going through with it. Or even wait until Pfizer has the actual booster shot.

[WizeGuy]

9 minutes ago, Xenos said:

I think Pfizer and the FDA/CDC are doing what they’re doing for legitimate reasons. This happens sometimes believe it or not lol. I agree with you about Pfizer’s reasoning. I also think you’re right about the FDA/CDC waiting on more data before acting. Both agencies may want to avoid alarming people, or affect the vaccination rate even more by mentioning boosters until everything has been properly reviewed on their end.

If you get a third shot, is the presumption that it’ll act like a booster? Maybe it’ll be fine. But I would rather wait to make sure it’s safe and actually does what it needs to do first before actually going through with it. Or even wait until Pfizer has the actual booster shot.

The booster shot Pfizer is planning on applying for emergency use in Aug is the same one they've been giving since Dec. It'd basically be like I entered their trial for the booster, but instead of risking the chance of taking the placebo- I actually get the vaccine. Since I've already gone through two of those shots- the risks of adverse reaction is incredibly low.  

 

Edit: Of course, I am not advocating for other people to do this. I've just been vaccinated for longer than 99.99% of the population, so I'm willing to take the chance for my little guy's safety.

Edited July 9, 2021 by WizeGuy

[Xenos]

2 hours ago, WizeGuy said:

The booster shot Pfizer is planning on applying for emergency use in Aug is the same one they've been giving since Dec. It'd basically be like I entered their trial for the booster, but instead of risking the chance of taking the placebo- I actually get the vaccine. Since I've already gone through two of those shots- the risks of adverse reaction is incredibly low.  

 

Edit: Of course, I am not advocating for other people to do this. I've just been vaccinated for longer than 99.99% of the population, so I'm willing to take the chance for my little guy's safety.

Oh I must have read it wrong then. I thought it was a new shot that was specifically designed to fight the new variants.

[ramssuperbowl99]

13 hours ago, WizeGuy said:

13 hours ago, Xenos said:

Both the FDA and CDC seem to be downplaying the need for booster shots right now.

I may be in the minority here, and I'm a layman, so my opinion should always be taken with a grain of salt, but for the purpose of an interesting discussion:

I really, really think Pfizer is genuinely making this recommendation based on the data they've seen from the Israel Ministry of Health- that antibodies wane after 6 months. They specifically cite that data set, and said that a majority of fully vaxxed infections are coming from healthcare workers who have been fully vaxxed for 6 or more months. The CDC, FDA, experts online, etc....have not had a chance to view that data yet as it has not been released, but should be released soon.

Also, let's not forget that Israel is Pfizer's lab rat for real world data. They were the first to bring data on effectiveness against asymptomatic infections. Many people are saying Pfizer is doing this for financial gains, and maybe so- but this data is coming from a legit source, imo- the Israel Ministry of Health. 

@ramssuperbowl99 what's your opinion on that matter? I know a lot of experts are questioning Pfizer, but none of them have read through the data yet.

I'm considering just going to CVS and getting a third dose of Pfizer since I have a two year old at home, have been vaxxed for 7 months, and want to be able to go to bars and the such with little worry of bringing the virus home to my son.

I want to see more data and the frequency of boosters needed to keep an antibody response up. To me, it comes down to your goal. Right now, our best guess is that the vaccine provides years of protection against severe infection and a pandemic, but months of infection period. So what do we want to prevent? I don't know if there's an informed right or wrong answer to this yet.

At least in the short term, I'd have pretty glaring ethical concerns about giving Americans a third dose solely to prevent us missing a day at work when we need billions more doses globally.

[TVScout]

Study claims delta variant doubles hospitalizations:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01358-1/fulltext#articleInformation

 

[Xenos]

9 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I want to see more data and the frequency of boosters needed to keep an antibody response up. To me, it comes down to your goal. Right now, our best guess is that the vaccine provides years of protection against severe infection and a pandemic, but months of infection period. So what do we want to prevent? I don't know if there's an informed right or wrong answer to this yet.

At least in the short term, I'd have pretty glaring ethical concerns about giving Americans a third dose solely to prevent us missing a day at work when we need billions more doses globally.

Given the contagious nature of Covid, I can see the thinking in getting a booster to minimize transmission since that seems to be the issue based on Israel’s data. But yeah, we really need to start donating more abroad to help more people and prevent more variants from popping up.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Xenos

[WizeGuy]

On 7/10/2021 at 3:38 AM, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I want to see more data and the frequency of boosters needed to keep an antibody response up. To me, it comes down to your goal. Right now, our best guess is that the vaccine provides years of protection against severe infection and a pandemic, but months of infection period. So what do we want to prevent? I don't know if there's an informed right or wrong answer to this yet.

At least in the short term, I'd have pretty glaring ethical concerns about giving Americans a third dose solely to prevent us missing a day at work when we need billions more doses globally.

 

I agree 110%. I've been wondering this for a few months, but what's the goal heading into the fall and winter? Cases are surely going to rise as many Americans were vaccinated between March-June. Antibodies seem to wane in six months, so infections are going to happen among the vaxxed but, as you said, the memory cell response seems to be robust, so we should still have high effectiveness against severe symptoms. Hospitals likely will not be overwhelmed. My opinion is you stay the course unless hospitals begin to become strained, which I guess is possible if we have a tough flu season. Obviously, every state will have their own guidelines.

Frontline healthcare workers and immune compromised people should be the only ones in consideration for a booster as of right now and going forward, imo. Immune compromised people are obvious ones, but frontline healthcare workers wouldn't be a bad idea either because they work around the sickest of patients, though masks may be sufficient enough to reduce transmission in a healthcare setting.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by WizeGuy

[TVScout]

 

 

Free updates:

Hundreds of Thais inoculated with Sinovac are infected as cases spike in Southeast Asia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/07/12/coronavirus-latest-updates/

 

Not free:

Israel starts administering third dose of Pfizer vaccine to at-risk adults.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-vaccine-pfizer-booster/2021/07/12/ce5ceed4-e30e-11eb-88c5-4fd6382c47cb_story.html

Quote

The decision comes as Israel, which was among the fastest to vaccinate and among the first in the world to begin reopening in the spring, is experiencing a surge in new cases, spurred by the prevalence of the more transmissible Delta variant first identified in India. Over the past month, infection rates in Israel have spiked from single digits to around 450 a day.

 

[incognito_man]

Our country has obviously failed a huge percentage of our population. If you raise this many adult humans who are literally dying instead of getting a statistically 100% safe vaccine, your education system sucks.

This is the clearest evidence yet of the fragility of the American experiment IMO. Once you lose critical thinking skills in 40% of your population you (as a nation) need to pivot hard and fast or real disaster is likely to ensue.

And I'm a raging optimist, typically. But this is beyond frightening.

[vikesfan89]

What makes a vaccine statistically 100% safe?  Is that considering few long term side effects or just no deaths? 

[theJ]

4 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Our country has obviously failed a huge percentage of our population. If you raise this many adult humans who are literally dying instead of getting a statistically 100% safe vaccine, your education system sucks.

This is the clearest evidence yet of the fragility of the American experiment IMO. Once you lose critical thinking skills in 40% of your population you (as a nation) need to pivot hard and fast or real disaster is likely to ensue.

And I'm a raging optimist, typically. But this is beyond frightening.

I agree...

However the decision isn't take a 100% safe vaccine or die.  It's take a 99.999999% safe vaccine or live with a 0.0001% chance of dying (didn't actually do the math).  We know through various studies that people aren't good at making critical decisions based purely on math.  So the result is expected.  Especially when you factor the P word.

 

But yeah, they should just take the thing lol.

[vikesfan89]

5 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Our country has obviously failed a huge percentage of our population. If you raise this many adult humans who are literally dying instead of getting a statistically 100% safe vaccine, your education system sucks.

This is the clearest evidence yet of the fragility of the American experiment IMO. Once you lose critical thinking skills in 40% of your population you (as a nation) need to pivot hard and fast or real disaster is likely to ensue.

And I'm a raging optimist, typically. But this is beyond frightening.

Has anything really changed though?  How many people don't wear seat belts or don't wear helmets on a motorcycle or smoke all of their lives? People are literally dieing from all of that among other things caused by choices that they make every day