The Mega Offseason Workout/OTA/Training Camp Thread

[raidr4life]

2 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

Robertson IMO would have to play pretty poorly to get cut. I am not outright ruling it out, but it would take Hayward looking like he still has a year or two of quality play, Mullen to be what he was last season or better, Isiah Johnson taking a big step and looking like a guy that could push for a lot of playing time, and then Robertson would have to look significantly worse and look to have no long term upside than the vets like Douglas, Nixon, and Lawson, in addition to Hobbs. I know he didn't show must last year, but I won't write off a rookie CB looking rough. Especially with a significant jump in competition, playing in a bad scheme, with very little talent around him in the pass rush or the rest of the secondary, while making the transition to slot as an every down thing. Johnson and Robertson are the corners I am most eager to see this camp. I think both guys have skill sets to become really solid players for us. I understand Bradley is bringing in a new scheme, but I don't think Robersons height alone will be what gets him the axe, because I don't believe his height will be such a negative that he can't play in the cover 3. He may lack the height, but in college he did display the man coverage, press skills, playing on an island, and ball skills to find success there. I may actually argue that even with his height and length not being preferred in Bradley's scheme, the rest of his skill set fits Bradley's scheme far better. But a large part of that could also just be the fact that Bradley has at least an average scheme and ability to coach and Gunther showed very little to me.

I'm not saying Amik shouldn't get any time or development in the slot. He absolutely should. I still think it's something he could do at a high level in the NFL, I just don't think we should pigeonhole him into a slot only CB and have the expectations of him succeeding there or he has no shot or role on the team. I think he could at least become a valuable depth guy in the secondary that can play on the boundary at at least a serviceable level and do the same at nickel. Even if the odds of him becoming a pro bowler or something at either is unlikely just because it's rare for mid round picks to reach that level. 

I would predict the CB final roster looks like

Mullen

Hayward

Arnette 

Johnson

Robertson

Douglas

I could also easily see Nixon or Hobbs outplaying Douglas for the last CB spot, but I don't think they want an entire CB room with 4 out of the 6 guys having played 2 years for one of the top 2 corners, and the other 3 having not even that much experience. Hobbs they will probably try their best to stash on the practice squad unless he just flashes a ton in camp. 

Lawson will get carried on the roster until after his suspension and then probably cut, but he could also get the nod over Douglas for the last spot. 

After all that...Lol

[NightTrainLane]

7 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

Robertson IMO would have to play pretty poorly to get cut. I am not outright ruling it out, but it would take Hayward looking like he still has a year or two of quality play, Mullen to be what he was last season or better, Isiah Johnson taking a big step and looking like a guy that could push for a lot of playing time, and then Robertson would have to look significantly worse and look to have no long term upside than the vets like Douglas, Nixon, and Lawson, in addition to Hobbs. I know he didn't show must last year, but I won't write off a rookie CB looking rough. Especially with a significant jump in competition, playing in a bad scheme, with very little talent around him in the pass rush or the rest of the secondary, while making the transition to slot as an every down thing. Johnson and Robertson are the corners I am most eager to see this camp. I think both guys have skill sets to become really solid players for us. I understand Bradley is bringing in a new scheme, but I don't think Robersons height alone will be what gets him the axe, because I don't believe his height will be such a negative that he can't play in the cover 3. He may lack the height, but in college he did display the man coverage, press skills, playing on an island, and ball skills to find success there. I may actually argue that even with his height and length not being preferred in Bradley's scheme, the rest of his skill set fits Bradley's scheme far better. But a large part of that could also just be the fact that Bradley has at least an average scheme and ability to coach and Gunther showed very little to me.

I'm not saying Amik shouldn't get any time or development in the slot. He absolutely should. I still think it's something he could do at a high level in the NFL, I just don't think we should pigeonhole him into a slot only CB and have the expectations of him succeeding there or he has no shot or role on the team. I think he could at least become a valuable depth guy in the secondary that can play on the boundary at at least a serviceable level and do the same at nickel. Even if the odds of him becoming a pro bowler or something at either is unlikely just because it's rare for mid round picks to reach that level. 

I would predict the CB final roster looks like

Mullen

Hayward

Arnette 

Johnson

Robertson

Douglas

I could also easily see Nixon or Hobbs outplaying Douglas for the last CB spot, but I don't think they want an entire CB room with 4 out of the 6 guys having played 2 years for one of the top 2 corners, and the other 3 having not even that much experience. Hobbs they will probably try their best to stash on the practice squad unless he just flashes a ton in camp. 

Lawson will get carried on the roster until after his suspension and then probably cut, but he could also get the nod over Douglas for the last spot. 

[Dessie]

11 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

Robertson IMO would have to play pretty poorly to get cut. I am not outright ruling it out, but it would take Hayward looking like he still has a year or two of quality play, Mullen to be what he was last season or better, Isiah Johnson taking a big step and looking like a guy that could push for a lot of playing time, and then Robertson would have to look significantly worse and look to have no long term upside than the vets like Douglas, Nixon, and Lawson, in addition to Hobbs. I know he didn't show must last year, but I won't write off a rookie CB looking rough. Especially with a significant jump in competition, playing in a bad scheme, with very little talent around him in the pass rush or the rest of the secondary, while making the transition to slot as an every down thing. Johnson and Robertson are the corners I am most eager to see this camp. I think both guys have skill sets to become really solid players for us. I understand Bradley is bringing in a new scheme, but I don't think Robersons height alone will be what gets him the axe, because I don't believe his height will be such a negative that he can't play in the cover 3. He may lack the height, but in college he did display the man coverage, press skills, playing on an island, and ball skills to find success there. I may actually argue that even with his height and length not being preferred in Bradley's scheme, the rest of his skill set fits Bradley's scheme far better. But a large part of that could also just be the fact that Bradley has at least an average scheme and ability to coach and Gunther showed very little to me.

I'm not saying Amik shouldn't get any time or development in the slot. He absolutely should. I still think it's something he could do at a high level in the NFL, I just don't think we should pigeonhole him into a slot only CB and have the expectations of him succeeding there or he has no shot or role on the team. I think he could at least become a valuable depth guy in the secondary that can play on the boundary at at least a serviceable level and do the same at nickel. Even if the odds of him becoming a pro bowler or something at either is unlikely just because it's rare for mid round picks to reach that level. 

I would predict the CB final roster looks like

Mullen

Hayward

Arnette 

Johnson

Robertson

Douglas

I could also easily see Nixon or Hobbs outplaying Douglas for the last CB spot, but I don't think they want an entire CB room with 4 out of the 6 guys having played 2 years for one of the top 2 corners, and the other 3 having not even that much experience. Hobbs they will probably try their best to stash on the practice squad unless he just flashes a ton in camp. 

Lawson will get carried on the roster until after his suspension and then probably cut, but he could also get the nod over Douglas for the last spot. 

I definitely could see Robertson being cut, we’ve brought in Douglas, Hayward, Hobbs this offseason and Johnson going off physical traits is a Bradley type corner. Robertson’s size and length isn’t what Bradley normally goes for and have to wonder if Bradley would have taken him if he were here last year. 

Hope the kid plays well enough in camp to stick around but like I say I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t just because he’s a bad fit for Bradley’s scheme. We’ve just cut Irving for being a ‘bad fit’. 

[oakdb36]

22 minutes ago, Dessie said:

We’ve just cut Irving for being a ‘bad fit’. 

I'm not sure the "bad fit" was scheme related in this case. Just the feeling i get.

[Darbsk]

On 5/27/2021 at 6:06 AM, BackinBlack said:

IFF that is the starting line for the majority of the season I think we are ok. 
The depth scares me. . . but not as much as it has in the past. LOL

Obviously, we regress big time at C. 
Can Carr help James with calling out pressure schemes?
(Thats a legit question, I dont know, or is that something only OL watch tape on typically)

I'd probably be a little less nervous with a solid vet like Nick Martin at centre but I understand why they want to see James in there. I just hope he isn't handed the starting role on a platter just to make it look like the Hudson trade was more well thought out. Martin has been a solid player for a number of years so if James can genuinely beat him out then we'll be OK. 

[Dessie]

2 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

I'm not sure the "bad fit" was scheme related in this case. Just the feeling i get.

With his record it’s a fair observation. Just don’t see Robertson as a good fit for Bradley and don’t see Robertson fits as an outside corner, glad to be proven wrong though. 

[Darbsk]

On 5/27/2021 at 6:35 PM, RaidersAreOne said:

 

Just hope he shuts up long enough to learn something. I think Abram could be a good player but he'll have to park the bravado and realise what he doesn't know if he is to learn and really reach his potential I feel. I know he wants to be a leader and the tempo setter on D but he has to earn it IMO and part of that leadership is knowing when to listen and when to just be disciplined. 

[NYRaider]

5 hours ago, Dessie said:

With his record it’s a fair observation. Just don’t see Robertson as a good fit for Bradley and don’t see Robertson fits as an outside corner, glad to be proven wrong though. 

He could transition into a slot CB.

[raidr4life]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I'd probably be a little less nervous with a solid vet like Nick Martin at centre but I understand why they want to see James in there. I just hope he isn't handed the starting role on a platter just to make it look like the Hudson trade was more well thought out. Martin has been a solid player for a number of years so if James can genuinely beat him out then we'll be OK. 

They handing it to him on a platter for sure, they had no reason to pay him all that money and they will swallow the sword to justify it.

[raidr4life]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Just hope he shuts up long enough to learn something. I think Abram could be a good player but he'll have to park the bravado and realise what he doesn't know if he is to learn and really reach his potential I feel. I know he wants to be a leader and the tempo setter on D but he has to earn it IMO and part of that leadership is knowing when to listen and when to just be disciplined. 

Well I mean the story just said he's been dialed in and taking notes.

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Just hope he shuts up long enough to learn something. I think Abram could be a good player but he'll have to park the bravado and realise what he doesn't know if he is to learn and really reach his potential I feel. I know he wants to be a leader and the tempo setter on D but he has to earn it IMO and part of that leadership is knowing when to listen and when to just be disciplined. 

FWIW Vic Tafur said that Abram is already one of the leaders in the locker room.

[NYRaider]

7 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I'd probably be a little less nervous with a solid vet like Nick Martin at centre but I understand why they want to see James in there. I just hope he isn't handed the starting role on a platter just to make it look like the Hudson trade was more well thought out. Martin has been a solid player for a number of years so if James can genuinely beat him out then we'll be OK. 

I don't think there's really any chance James gets beat for the job due to the extension they gave him. 

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I don't think there's really any chance James gets beat for the job due to the extension they gave him. 

Yeh, and that could be a problem if they've predetermined him the starter. I just want the best guy out there and if that's James, fair enough but I'd like Martin to get a fair shot too - as I'm sure we all would.

[Darbsk]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

FWIW Vic Tafur said that Abram is already one of the leaders in the locker room.

And I think that was a problem last year, he's not mature enough yet IMO and needs to focus on his discipline, doing his job right and not making egregious mistakes. If he does that, which I'm sure he can with hard work then he could make a good leader. He has the energy and enthusiasm but you also have to show the young guys that professional attitude too on and off the pitch. Hopefully a guy like Hayward is exactly what he needs.

[NYRaider]

13 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Yeh, and that could be a problem if they've predetermined him the starter. I just want the best guy out there and if that's James, fair enough but I'd like Martin to get a fair shot too - as I'm sure we all would.

It's similar to the Collins situation last year where he was going to start regardless because of his contract. Still very odd we gave him an extension before we've even really seen him play.