The Mega Offseason Workout/OTA/Training Camp Thread

[Turnobili]

31 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

I Read that too. I realized the stuff im talking about isnt in those threads its in other threads. In other threads youll find stuff like the following:

"We're heading into year 4 of the Gruden rebuild and we're in a worse spot then we were when he inherited the team. "FA

"This team is stuck in the middle of the Atlantic (AFC West) with no rudder. With our average at best FA signings, lack of depth on many levels and our still atrocious D" -raiders sign leathwood pick #17

"We are still an embarrassment of a team that lacks talent and depth. We are a joke of a team yet fans like you think this is a playoff roster being held back by Carr. I seriously couldn't make this trash up if I tried lol" -The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Mariota and beyond

"We upgraded on the only real solid player we've got on D not named Mullen and signed a luxury RB2 for seemingly no reason other than to arbitrarily pay more for a RB2 while ignoring legitimate needs. 

People can sugarcoat it, but it's true. 

We've gotten worse by stuffing the roster with more replacement talent at positions of need yet again. 

We signed A LOT of guys, sure, but how many are upgrades from last year? Drake? The least necessary signing we made? 

Our answer to Crosby being our only pass rush is to stuff the rest of the DL with even more rotational back end of roster guys and use our money to instead pull Crosby from his starting role? Seriously? Where are the "but young guys need to play" crowd on that? The one young guy in our front 7 who produces is now being relegated to a rotational position. Why not any of the other ones who don't actually produce?

Hell, we managed to create a need by Gruden and Mayock simply being here, and we've even managed to bungle that situation spectacularly. We lost Rodney Hudson, signed Nick Martin, and gave Andre James an extension for a handful of bad snaps...🤦🏼‍♂️...just, why?

Gruden and Mayock are clearly just winging it. There's no plan. There's no semblance of a strategy. And yet the Neros fiddle away, preaching patience and contradictions. " -Raiders sign WR Willie Snead

"As for Yannick, again, cool, he had some nice seasons surrounded by more talented guys. And maybe he replicates and/or builds on that success around the lesser talent we have. 

That still doesn't address the problem. Our only consistent pass rusher was Crosby, who Yannick is going to replace on the field. We signed someone to fix the one spot that was arguably not broken while doing the same old song and dance with the actually broken ones. What kind of strategy is that? It isn't a viable one, that's for sure. " -Raiders sign WR Willie Snead

"Nothing but excuses and optimistic projections.  When the season hits reality will come slap you and all of your worthless cherry picked stats across the face.  It's happened for the last two decades and all of a sudden you think this team has 11 win potential.  Hahaha give me a break.  " -Raiders sign WR Willie Snead

"No quality players want to sign or play for the dumpster fire known as the Raiders organization/Gruden.  It's pretty embarrassing that we had 40 million in cap space and walked away with minimal impact.  We have improved our edge rush with YN and our RB depth with Drake but besides that it's been pretty pathetic considering how little depth and talent we have.No quality players want to sign or play for the dumpster fire known as the Raiders organization/Gruden.  It's pretty embarrassing that we had 40 million in cap space and walked away with minimal impact.  We have improved our edge rush with YN and our RB depth with Drake but besides that it's been pretty pathetic considering how little depth and talent we have."-Raiders sign WR Willie Snead

"Morrow is average, Kwik is also an average MLB, Littleton has flashed on a team littered with talent and a fearsome pass rush.  Last year he was average at best with the talent surrounding him.  So we have a bunch of average LB's that hopefully dont get hurt because we have zero depth behind them.  

YN is good at rushing the passer but is on his 4th team in 2 years for a reason.  Our outside pass rush has improved but we still have nothing proven on the interior in terms of pass rush.  Until someone steps up's QB's will literally step up and have all day to pass.  

Our safety play was a disaster and so far we have signed nothing to make me think otherwise.  Our safeties are still terrible.

We had players like NA last year throwing a fit because we have no leadership, accountability and a terrible culture for a franchise that has 1 winning season in the last 20 years.  Heck we just signed a bum like Bill Sneed who is talking about coning in here and changing the culture.  You want to know what changes a teams culture?  It's really not rocket science, it's one simple word.... Winning and this team is still very far from being a team that is a legitimate winner.  You can attempt to sugar coat it all you want but no legit players want to come here and get their teeth kicked in every Sunday.  You can just look at our FA signings once again for proof.  

We could have signed an impact WR with our money, we didn't. We could have went after a potential #1 Cb in FA yet did nothing, we could have signed some Olineman other than average at best Martin and 38 year old RI (who I do like when healthy) abs we didn’t or couldn’t. We could have went after some decent talent with upside potential at LB and nothing.  

YOY it's the same trash that we hope pans out which rarely does but when they do, they hit the  road just like NA and Hudson did this offseason. "-Raiders sign WR Willie Snead

 

and i feel like a lot of those criticisms are valid and continue to be true. the FO has objectively made plenty of poor decisions since the Gruden regime came in. people's complaints along the way have largely been validated by the fact that the team has appeared to be stuck in neutral for some time now.

look at the consistent roster turnover year to year. look back at draft classes and see just how few draft picks even remain on the team past a couple of years. look at how many of our big FA acquisitions in recent years have panned out. its not like people are swinging at windmills here.

but here and there, there have been some good moves that they have made, and those moves get praised when they happen. a lot of people hated the Ruggs pick, but most people loved the Edwards pick. People didnt like the Muse pick, but liked the Amik Robertson pick.

to pretend people are hating on every transaction just to hate is naive and just comes off as defensive/homerism. people by and large loved the yannick and brown signings. at the same time other moves have been more polarizing. some people hated that hurst was cut. nobody cared that key was cut.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Turnobili

[Turnobili]

57 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

And I still do not like the signing.  I love the Ngakoue signing.  If Edwards can turn into a productive redzone/possession WR the Brown signing is not horrible but more so pointless and a waste of money.  I wanted to go after a bigger target that could produce in the redzone.  

Brown is on a 1 year deal, so he's really an insurance policy against either of Ruggs/Edwards underachieving or getting hurt. he's also a guy that could mentor Ruggs as a seasoned and successful deep threat. i similarly would have liked a guy like desean jackson

[Jeremy408]

2 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

and i feel like a lot of those criticisms are valid and continue to be true. the FO has objectively made plenty of poor decisions since the Gruden regime came in. people's complaints along the way have largely been validated by the fact that the team has appeared to be stuck in neutral for some time now.

look at the consistent roster turnover year to year. look back at draft classes and see just how few draft picks even remain on the team past a couple of years. look at how many of our big FA acquisitions in recent years have panned out. its not like people are swinging at windmills here.

but here and there, there have been some good moves that they have made, and those moves get praised when they happen. a lot of people hated the Ruggs pick, but most people loved the Edwards pick. People didnt like the Muse pick, but liked the Amik Robertson pick.

to pretend people are hating on every transaction just to hate is naive and just comes off as defensive/homerism. people by and large loved the yannick and brown signings. at the same time other moves have been more polarizing. some people hated that hurst was cut. nobody cared that key was cut.

Ok so you agree to the idea that the Raiders have little to no talent on the roster

[Turnobili]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

Ok so you agree to the idea that the Raiders have little to no talent on the roster

ok so you agree you stopped beating your wife

all ive said is that a there have been a lot of valid criticisms in recent years and the results bear that out. i've also said that i dont think people are just reflexively hating on every move just to be spiteful o whatever, and have pointed out that there have been plenty of moves made with near unanimous approval by fans here

Edited August 6, 2021 by Turnobili

[Jeremy408]

5 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

ok so you agree you stopped beating your wife

all ive said is that a there have been a lot of valid criticisms in recent years and the results bear that out. i've also said that i dont think people are just reflexively hating on every move just to be spiteful o whatever, and have pointed out that there have been plenty of moves made with near unanimous approval by fans here

But then say that theres no talent on the roster 

[Turnobili]

43 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

But then say that theres no talent on the roster 

you dont think they believe Darren Waller is talented?

or maybe they're being hyperbolic 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Turnobili

[Jeremy408]

13 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

you dont think they believe Darren Waller is talented?

or maybe they're being hyperbolic 

I think Darren Waller is talented but that’s my point. Overtime the good moves are ignored for the blanket statements like our team has no talent. That’s what I was referring to in the first place

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

I think Darren Waller is talented but that’s my point. Overtime the good moves are ignored for the blanket statements like our team has no talent. That’s what I was referring to in the first place

Good choice bad outcome and bad choice good outcomes.  When I trade stocks I can just pick any stock and have a 50/50 chance.  That would be a bad choice that can have a good outcome.  I can also do a great job of reading the tea leaves and lose money.  Good choice bad outcome.  Minimize risk and maximize production.  This team has very little understanding of risk management.  I criticized the Waller/Cook decision even after Waller had an amazing year.  Not because of the outcome but rather because of the choice.  We had a top TE we could sign for relatively cheap as we worked Waller into the system.  We also had a Carr leaning heavily on his TEs.  Everything pointed to not taking a big risk.  Instead we traded Cooper mid season and let Cook walk after.  Waller averaged 15 yards more a game and had half the TDs.  The team improved but it was from the defense improving.  The offense barely moved the needle.  Should have kept both at least for 2019.  Make stupid decisions and sometimes you look like a genius.  You run into problems when those times affect your your thinking more than the mistakes moving forward because you are reinforcing bad behaviors.  Gruden having a larger than life ego to go along with a bunch of yes men is creating a situation where he only needs to take credit for the bad decisions that work out.  Right now it could work out that we make the playoffs but we could just as easily be picking top 5 with a couple injuries on the lines.  If we make the playoffs Gruden is a genius but if we have a few injuries it is not his fault that these "unforeseen injuries happened".  Point being is at the time Waller was a lottery ticket on the Ravens practice.  Deciding to go with Waller as the starter was a risky move to go along big money to TW and the crazy AB.  Everyone remembers Waller now and forgets the other horrible moves.  Them being correct 1/3 of the time is not good.  We have talent.  Just not as much as we should.

[agarcia34]

 

[Jeremy408]

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Jeremy408

[Totty]

Any news on why Waller isn't practicing?  It's been 4 days.  🤔

[Jeremy408]

 

[Jeremy408]

 

[Darbsk]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

 

Oh heck, I really hope neither tackle goes down then. 😬

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

 

Maybe trying to get Simpson more PT because they know Incognito will probably go down at some point and they are going to need Good on the left side.  

I hope we can get Wright signed.  I would feel a lot better about the transition to Bradley's system with more of the correct pieces.  Any news on what other teams he is talking to.  Or maybe he just does not want to participate in training camp in Vegas heat.  He knows the system so it should be a smooth transition.  Could have a positive affect similar to bringing in Burifict in Guenther's system.