Jaguars sign TE Tim Tebow

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

12 hours ago, pwny said:

Urban Meyer’s system uses two different types of TEs. One is the in-line (Y) who is your tradional blocker, the other is the move (F) tight end, which just as the name implies is the guy you move all around the formation. It’s a receiver, a runner, a guy who you use in the option, a guy you might even have throw the ball 3-4 times a season to catch a defense off guard, just all of that stuff. All but the receiving part of it is stuff that Tebow has a history of doing with Urban.

That's called an H-Back, and plenty of systems use it. But I can't quite get over how confusing it is that this position requires some decent athleticism and the best they could do was a 34 year-old Tim Tebow? 

[Ray Reed]

14 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

That's called an H-Back, and plenty of systems use it. But I can't quite get over how confusing it is that this position requires some decent athleticism and the best they could do was a 34 year-old Tim Tebow? 

It's just odd considering they literally traded us Josh Oliver - a TE drafted in 2019 in the 3rd round who could absolutely do those things if he works out (like they're saying about Tebow) - earlier this offseason lol.

Like, I get this is a "back of the roster, maybe 3rd TE if he makes it" type signing...but that's exactly what Josh Oliver is? Who you traded to us for a conditional 7th lol 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/4-takeaways-on-the-jaguars-decision-to-trade-josh-oliver-to-the-ravens 

Like, the rationalization for the Oliver trade when it was made was that Henry and Smith were going to be FAs, you had the draft coming up, etc.

But now it just looks dumb on their FOs part IMO if they're resorting to Tim Tebow over a guy that was actually drafted at TE 2 years ago in the third round lol.

If you want to take a flier - maybe give that guy a shot again?

[MWil23]

9 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

28 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

That's called an H-Back, and plenty of systems use it. But I can't quite get over how confusing it is that this position requires some decent athleticism and the best they could do was a 34 year-old Tim Tebow? 

It's just odd considering they literally traded us Josh Oliver - a TE drafted in 2019 in the 3rd round who could absolutely do those things if he works out (like they're saying about Tebow) - earlier this offseason lol.

Like, I get this is a "back of the roster, maybe 3rd TE if he makes it" type signing...but that's exactly what Josh Oliver is? Who you traded to us for a conditional 7th lol 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/4-takeaways-on-the-jaguars-decision-to-trade-josh-oliver-to-the-ravens 

Like, the rationalization for the Oliver trade when it was made was that Henry and Smith were going to be FAs, you had the draft coming up, etc.

But now it just looks dumb on their FOs part IMO if they're resorting to Tim Tebow over a guy that was actually drafted at TE 2 years ago in the third round lol.

If you want to take a flier - maybe give that guy a shot again?

You guys are talking about the same guy who decided to play J.T. Barrett over Cardale Jones, Dwayne Haskins, and Joe Burrow...and you're just now starting to question his ability to gauge personnel.

IMO Urban was always a great recruiter, but his ability to evaluate talent already on his roster and allow guys to compete to win jobs and beat out established competition was always questionable AT BEST.

[pwny]

23 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

That's called an H-Back, and plenty of systems use it. But I can't quite get over how confusing it is that this position requires some decent athleticism and the best they could do was a 34 year-old Tim Tebow? 

It would be an H back if one of the primary responsibility was blocking, yes. But it’s not. H and move (or F if you want single letter designations, as noted in my first post) occasionally line up similarly, but they have different roles. Chris Manhertz is the type of guy who would line up as an H in this system, and he has 12 catches in his 6 year career. Meanwhile, the most famously known move TE in Urban’s history is Aaron Hernandez and he couldn’t block for anything.

I’m not saying that the best option is Tebow. I’m saying that there’s no viable option here, so it’s not really a big deal whether they go with the guy who knows the system but has never played the entirety of the position, the guy who can’t run anymore, or the player who isn’t capable of doing anything the role requires. They’re all bad options, and are all at best just throwing crap against the wall hoping they stick. 

 

 

[iknowcool]

2 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Those 34 year olds that fall off at that age also have the wear and tear of playing football for all those years prior.

I have no idea if Tebow will be able to handle the grind/his body will hold up, but comparing him at 34 to other NFL players isn't the same.

There is still a drop-off in athleticism compared to when you are in your 20s.  That is where the comparison is.  Tebow is not the same level of athlete he was back then, and he wasn't some freak athlete to begin with.  To have success at 34 years old, you have to either be a supreme athlete, or you have to have the technique and years of perfecting your craft.  Tebow has neither.

This really shouldn't even be a consideration.  There isn't really any logic behind thinking Tebow actually has a chance to find success.  If it happens, then it is absolutely crazy.  But there is literally zero reason to think it will happen.  

Edited May 11, 2021 by iknowcool

[Oregon Ducks]

Urban Meyer clearly has no idea what he’s doing.

[.Buzz]

5 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

There is still a drop-off in athleticism compared to when you are in your 20s.  That is where the comparison is.  Tebow is not the same level of athlete he was back then, and he wasn't some freak athlete to begin with.  To have success at 34 years old, you have to either be a supreme athlete, or you have to have the technique and years of perfecting your craft.  Tebow has neither.

I never said there would be no drop off in athleticism, but he was a very good athlete coming out. Maybe not "supreme", but I'm not going to act like the guy is washed athletically when I haven't personally seen him.

He apparently worked out for our TE coach and has worked with the players the past month or so. If the guy was outmatched/zapped, I have a hard time seeing him being signed. But I guess we'll see when the media is actually able to see live reps.

[MWil23]

90% serious post:

If I were an NFL HC or GM, I'd bring in the most athletic SF/PF in the NCAA that didn't go to the NBA each year for a camp invitation and spend months trying to convince him that he's going to be the next Tony Gonzalez or Jimmy Graham. 6'6 to a 6'8 jumper with elite body control and hope that his experience as a rebounder/jumper can give us even a little bit of something as an in line blocker down the road.

[Tk3]

I'm curious whether he still has the ability.

I think there is a role that he can be useful in, and I think it's full gadget/trick play/Taysom Hill mode

Logan Thomas has much better athleticism and it took him like 7 years and the right scheme to make him as productive as he was at TE

Your Matt Pryors, Matt Jones, etc took a lot of work to be successful at other positions

I almost think a Michael Robinson role might be his most effective.

Or some combination of blocking/receiving role on short, underneath, or checkdown routes (I doubt he will be some great route runner), with an occasional gadget play under center

My prediction is that his upside is like 60-80 fantasy points.. If he has 15-20 catches and 200-300 combined yards and 3-4 total TDs, with a couple gadget completions in the mix - that's probably a strong season for him

[pwny]

36 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

It's just odd considering they literally traded us Josh Oliver - a TE drafted in 2019 in the 3rd round who could absolutely do those things if he works out (like they're saying about Tebow) - earlier this offseason lol.

Like, I get this is a "back of the roster, maybe 3rd TE if he makes it" type signing...but that's exactly what Josh Oliver is? Who you traded to us for a conditional 7th lol 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/4-takeaways-on-the-jaguars-decision-to-trade-josh-oliver-to-the-ravens 

Like, the rationalization for the Oliver trade when it was made was that Henry and Smith were going to be FAs, you had the draft coming up, etc.

But now it just looks dumb on their FOs part IMO if they're resorting to Tim Tebow over a guy that was actually drafted at TE 2 years ago in the third round lol.

If you want to take a flier - maybe give that guy a shot again?

Josh Oliver had a hamstring injury that kept him out of camp his rookie year, then another hamstring injury that made him miss all of preseason and the first six games of a season, then fractured his back and missed the final 6 games of the season, and then got cleared to play and broke his foot like two weeks later and missed the entirety of his second season.

Is he even going to be cleared to practice at the start of camp?

[Tk3]

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

90% serious post:

If I were an NFL HC or GM, I'd bring in the most athletic SF/PF in the NCAA that didn't go to the NBA each year for a camp invitation and spend months trying to convince him that he's going to be the next Tony Gonzalez or Jimmy Graham. 6'6 to a 6'8 jumper with elite body control and hope that his experience as a rebounder/jumper can give us even a little bit of something as an in line blocker down the road.

This is a no brainer and its shocking that we don't have more examples of this. A good number of those guys you suggested played WR or TE in high school.

There is no shortage of guys who have failed NBA aspirations and would be all about an opportunity to make a minimum NFL paycheck with a chance at breaking out.

There are a LOT of wildly mediocre TEs with roster spots who have minimal impact on their NFL teams

[iknowcool]

8 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I never said there would be no drop off in athleticism, but he was a very good athlete coming out. Maybe not "supreme", but I'm not going to act like the guy is washed athletically when I haven't personally seen him.

He apparently worked out for our TE coach and has worked with the players the past month or so. If the guy was outmatched/zapped like you refer to athletically, I have a hard time seeing him being signed. But I guess we'll see when the media is actually able to see live reps.

He was signed because he knows Urban Meyer.  Any idea that he was signed for any other reason is just ludicrous.  

I mean be honest.  If I made a thread last year posting a video of Tebow working out in shorts, and said a team should sign him and switch him to tight end, you would have considered it reasonable?

Yes, he was a good athlete coming out... in 2010.  It's 2021.  He hasn't played football in god knows how long.  He's switching to a new position.  He was never good at the one position he did play.  Please stop trying to act like this move was done for any other reason than the obvious.  If Urban Meyer wasn't the head coach of the Jags, Tebow wouldn't be back.

And again... that is okay.  It is just training camp.  Tebow brings publicity and sells merchandise.  There is no harm in signing Tim Tebow.  But stop trying to make it sound like Tebow has any football-related reason to be signed on an NFL team in 2021.  A team would never sign a player out of the league for 8 years at his age while switching him to another position.  I'm not saying his athleticism is "zapped", I'm saying it is not good enough to make up for the fact he likely does not know how to play the tight end position.  

Everyone keeps bringing up how people are "hating" on Tebow, but this is why.  The idea that he truly earned this spot on an NFL team is crazy talk.  He knows Meyer and Meyer knows him, and they love each other.  But you can't convince me a guy who hasn't played football as long as Tebow hasn't, and who hasn't ever played tight end, somehow earned it because he worked out with the tight end coach lol

Edited May 11, 2021 by iknowcool

[.Buzz]

Just now, iknowcool said:

He was signed because he knows Urban Meyer.  Any idea that he was signed for any other reason is just ludicrous.  

I mean be honest.  If I made a thread last year posting a video of Tebow working out in shorts, and said a team should sign him and switch him to tight end, you would have considered it reasonable?

Yes, he was a good athlete coming out... in 2010.  It's 2021.  He hasn't played football in god knows how long.  He's switching to a new position.  He was never good at the one position he did play.  Please stop trying to act like this move was done for any other reason than the obvious.  If Urban Meyer wasn't the head coach of the Jags, Tebow wouldn't be back.

And again... that is okay.  It is just training camp.  Tebow brings publicity and sells merchandise.  There is no harm in signing Tim Tebow.  But stop trying to make it sound like Tebow has any football-related reason to be signed on an NFL team in 2021.  A team would never sign a player out of the league for 8 years at his age while switching him to another position.  I'm not saying his athleticism is "zapped", I'm saying it is not good enough to make up for the fact he likely does not know how to play the tight end position.  

Of course he was signed because he's buddies with Urban. I never stated anything conflicting that...

???

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

This is a no brainer and its shocking that we don't have more examples of this. A good number of those guys you suggested played WR or TE in high school.

There is no shortage of guys who have failed NBA aspirations and would be all about an opportunity to make a minimum NFL paycheck with a chance at breaking out.

There are a LOT of wildly mediocre TEs with roster spots who have minimal impact on their NFL teams

Especially within that style of offense, where a good portion of the time they'll be in the backfield as a hybrid H or even in the slot or flexed elsewhere to cause Red Zone mismatches against a smaller corner or a less athletic LB/S, even if they're completely useless as a blocker.

[iknowcool]

1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

Of course he was signed because he's buddies with Urban. I never stated anything conflicting that...

???

And so I'm saying how he looked athletically, in shorts, with a TE coach, isn't really relevant.  It doesn't prove he wasn't/isn't outmatched.  It doesn't mean he wouldn't have been signed, because the reason why he was signed never had anything to do with any credentials of his.