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Goldfish's Way Too Early Draft Rankings 2021 (All up)


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4 hours ago, BigTrav said:

DiamondBS is a very predictable poster. If X is associated in any way with Baltimore, X = good. If X is associated in any way with Cinci, Cleveland or Pittsburgh, X = bad or risky.

You’re quite sorely mistaken. I’ve never been a fan of Matt Judon and wasn’t much a fan of CJ Mosley his last couple seasons either.

In terms of Oweh the value isn’t something I like. Oweh alone wouldn’t be a bad selection, but associated with the Brown Jr trade, I think it could particularly now up in EDC face if Oweh fails. I was much more a fan of other players in that slot, including the Chiefs new Center Creed Humphrey- who I view as a sure thing along the interior that will be a PB level talent.

I’ve gotten into multiple debates describing TJ Watt as being my pick for DPOY the last couple seasons.

I loved (hated) Cincy’s selection of Joseph Ossai, I felt he was a freaky edge with upside like Oweh but at least had some livelier production to his credit.

Nick Chubb was one of my draft crushes in 2018 and I wanted him, DJ Moore, or Lamar as our 1st that year.

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42 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Nice work goldfish.  With Fields, I get the skepticism and questioning why he fell but the same thing was said about Mahomes too.

Personally, this pick just feels different from any other QB prospect in my lifetime (Mitch, Grossman, Mirer, etc) and I'm confident they made the right choice.  I ordered his jersey on draft day and that's something I don't usually do. That's how confident I am. But as you said though....only time will tell. 

Loved the Fields selection as well. You can tell he also felt disrespected by the fact that guys who accomplished far less than him (Wilson and Lance) went ahead of him.

The only concern I have with Fields is his durability, he seemed to often be banged up at Ohio State. Perhaps he was just unlucky but that does provide me pause. But either way he’s got the tangible and intangible skills that I simply don’t doubt will thrive at the NFL level. If he can stay healthy I definitely think he will be of eventual PB ability.

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26 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Loved the Fields selection as well. You can tell he also felt disrespected by the fact that guys who accomplished far less than him (Wilson and Lance) went ahead of him.

The only concern I have with Fields is his durability, he seemed to often be banged up at Ohio State. Perhaps he was just unlucky but that does provide me pause. But either way he’s got the tangible and intangible skills that I simply don’t doubt will thrive at the NFL level. If he can stay healthy I definitely think he will be of eventual PB ability.

That's a legit concern. On the flip side tho, it shows his resiliency and toughness to still play through those injuries -- ala Russ Wilson.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Is this a highlight? What does that even mean?

Are there highlight plays, absolutely, but this isn’t a highlight video... otherwise there would only be positive plays and the most impactful of them at that... likely have some upbeat rock or rap music attached to it too. 😆 

This is simply the tape you supplied. It’s a game tape that shows all of the reps available from the game.

You commented that he was on the ground a lot for an impact run stopper, I simply watched the tape and uncovered only 1 legitimate play where he was on the ground... based on your description, I simply thought I would uncover a lot more of such plays.

My conclusion was simply that your description was a bit of an exaggeration.

Fair, 

I felt the same way about the explanation from the Ravens perspective, I felt he was putting lipstick on a pig, I thought he had a horrible game. As I stated before, these were my feelings BEFORE the Ravens drafted him which can be found. I was just expressing my thoughts. And it obviously has zero bearing on his future, I guess we are all square now....

Edited by MSURacerDT55
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49 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Fair, 

I felt the same way about the explanation from the Ravens perspective, I felt he was putting lipstick on a pig, I thought he had a horrible game. As I stated before, these were my feelings BEFORE the Ravens drafted him which can be found. I was just expressing my thoughts. And it obviously has zero bearing on his future, I guess we are all square now....

Yup. I’m neutral myself. I think he’s got some lovely traits and athleticism that can be worked with.

I think he’s an obvious freak who displays that ability as an impact run defender. I like how he seems to adjust to how an offense is attacking him and improves as a game goes along. I think when he sees where the ball is, there is a lot to love. Lastly I think as a pass rusher he’s got some moves that he has shown exist in his repertoire; I’ve seen a long arm technique, a spin move, and obviously he most excels with his bend and .

However I find he can be easily fooled with misdirection, his overall play recognition/awareness leaves much to be desired. He has no understanding of a pass rush plan and looks like he’s simply stringing together moves he’s seen on Sunday night from his favorite NFL edge options. I also wasn’t a fan of his overall effort in some of his tape, I noticed on enough occasions if he saw his teammates converge on a player he would give up chase.
- actually on that note I was actually more impressed by his effort in this particular game, which boosted my opinion of him as a project. I detest lazy players. 

So all in all I’m going into this pick, not particularly loving it nor hating it. I love the Bateman pick and I hated when we took Hayden Hurst rd1 a few years back (for example). With Oweh, I have no positive nor negative expectations, this is sort of like the Hollywood Brown selection a few years ago. There are things I liked and disliked about both and players I felt I would’ve preferred over them, but all in all, I felt we could’ve done a lot worse as well.

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2 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Nice work goldfish.  With Fields, I get the skepticism and questioning why he fell but the same thing was said about Mahomes too.

Personally, this pick just feels different from any other QB prospect in my lifetime (Mitch, Grossman, Mirer, etc) and I'm confident they made the right choice.  I ordered his jersey on draft day and that's something I don't usually do. That's how confident I am. But as you said though....only time will tell. 

I actually agree and understand your position. That Fields pick puts Chicago in the lead for my "Foster team" this season.

I like the potential combination of Fields, Allen Robinson and Tarik Cohen - I think this group (along with the TE group) could be a fun group to watch... And, I think the pre-draft preamble towards guys like Wilson/Lance put a huge chip on Fields' shoulder.

Fields is out for blood... and he's going to collect this season.

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On 5/16/2021 at 4:36 AM, goldfishwars said:

While the move up for Fields looks an excellent one, especially for someone like me who had him ranked as QB2 in this class, some extremely needy QB teams all got an incredibly close look at him and decided to pass. Not only did those teams not trade up to get him, but they decided to watch him float closer than we all imagined, and some left him drift by completely

This is a really good point.  It's important to trust your own evaluations regardless, but it does speak volumes that teams clearly didn't see Fields in the same light as fans and some analysts do. 

I still do think he will be a very good QB (reminds me of Watson coming out, although Fields has a stronger arm).  It will be interesting to look back in a few years and see which of the QB needy teams made the smartest decision.  

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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2021 at 11:19 AM, goldfishwars said:

8. Los Angeles Chargers

2021 NFL draft: Chargers trade possibilities using values chart

This Class In One Sentence:
A patient, well-crafted haul in a draft where Telesco & co let the draft come to them.

Pre-Draft Needs 
OL, EDGE, CB, WR, TE

Selections
1 13. Rashawn Slater - Northwestern | OT |
2 47. Asante Samuel Jr. - Florida State | CB |
3 77. Josh Palmer - Tennessee | WR |
3 97. Tre' McKitty - Georgia | TE |
4 118. Chris Rumph II - Duke | OLB |
5 159. Brenden Jaimes - Nebraska | OT |
6 185. Nick Niemann - Iowa | LB |
6 198. Larry Rountree III - Missouri | RB |
7 241. Mark Webb - Georgia | S |

Picks Heading In
13.
47. 
77. 
97. 
118. 
159.
185. 
198.
241. 

What I Liked
I really love those first three picks, with the stars almost aligning for Slater and Samuel Jr to be available at both spots. The Chargers are heading into the 2021 season with an offensive line which doesn’t look overmatched for the first time in years. That’s a huge credit to the off-season work they’ve put in and Slater is a very solid addition. He’s a top tier athlete and technician, who could fill a number of spots on the line – clearly the hope is he can slide in a play tackle early on. 

Asante Samuel Jr is a dream fit for that heavy zone/quarters scheme at 47, which should give him plenty of opportunity to use his unreal quickness to attack the ball. Josh Palmer at 77 is another of my sneaky favorites. He endured a horrible QB situation at Tennessee but had a very good Senior Bowl week where he showed off his soft hands and ability to make plays downfield. 

I quite like the Chris Rumph selection at 118. I thought his tape was intriguing, but had no idea where he would fit in the NFL being a talented slenderman edge rusher. But he could find a home here in sub-packages. Brenden Jaimes is a solid pass-protector at tackle, that’s probably valuable in the 5th. Elsewhere it is super solid, Larry Rountree III being the most intriguing. He tested like dog, but he's got quick feet 

What I Didn’t Like
Tre' McKitty at 97, seems out of place for a dude who caught 56 passes in four seasons at Florida State and then Georgia. I get that it was a weak tight end class and that he improved his stock at the Senior Bowl showing off a good all-round skill-set. It’s not an egregious overshot because he does have some talent and many thought he was due for a big season in Georgia. But he was just so enigmatic I could only really envision him landing on day three, and pretty much anywhere there. 

Thanks for the write up. They needed a blocking TE and opted to go with McKitty over Tremble instead. I guess they were higher on him.
I also didn’t really see pre draft need with WR. If anything, safety and even edge rusher took precedence over WR. So if anything I was more disappointed with the Palmer pick than the McKitty one.

Edited by Xenos
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Nice work goldfish.  With Fields, I get the skepticism and questioning why he fell but the same thing was said about Mahomes too.

Personally, this pick just feels different from any other QB prospect in my lifetime (Mitch, Grossman, Mirer, etc) and I'm confident they made the right choice.  I ordered his jersey on draft day and that's something I don't usually do. That's how confident I am. But as you said though....only time will tell. 

Wasn't Mahomes viewed as a talented but risky QB coming out? I don't remember 100%, but i thought his was more of a case of him rising up draft boards through the draft process 

I think Fields situation more resembles Watson. Unless someone magically foresaw these legal issues, Watson shouldn't have fallen as far as he did, and neither should have Fields

 

Edited by 49ersfan
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I see the Jets often criticized for the AVT trade saying they could have had Darrisaw and Davis but ultimately the Vikings likely pick Darrisaw at 14 if not for the package to move back. Davis also doesn't fit our offense. 

In the end with the amount of picks we have loaded up on it made sense to take the jump up. Anything else is conjecture since at the time we only knew who was available at 14 and who wasn't. 66 and 86 were irrelevant in the regard. 

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1 hour ago, KingOfNewYork said:

I see the Jets often criticized for the AVT trade saying they could have had Darrisaw and Davis but ultimately the Vikings likely pick Darrisaw at 14 if not for the package to move back. Davis also doesn't fit our offense. 

In the end with the amount of picks we have loaded up on it made sense to take the jump up. Anything else is conjecture since at the time we only knew who was available at 14 and who wasn't. 66 and 86 were irrelevant in the regard. 

Not sure that's how trades work, man. Like or not, AVT has to be worth at least as much as what the Vikings acquired for that trade to look good for the Jets. That's going to be extremely hard for him to do. It's really why you don't give up multiple picks to draft guards in the first round.

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5 hours ago, 49ersfan said:

Wasn't Mahomes viewed as a talented but risky QB coming out? I don't remember 100%, but i thought his was more of a case of him rising up draft boards through the draft process 

I think Fields situation more resembles Watson. Unless someone magically foresaw these legal issues, Watson shouldn't have fallen as far as he did, and neither should have Fields

 

Watson is a fair comparison too.

If memory serves right. Mahomes did move up but most had Watson as #1, Mitch #2, and Mahomes #3.

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9 hours ago, 49ersfan said:

I think Fields situation more resembles Watson. Unless someone magically foresaw these legal issues, Watson shouldn't have fallen as far as he did, and neither should have Fields

I remember with Watson - the big metric was his ball velocity at the combine. It was the 3rd lowest recorded velocity in combine history, and people were harping on how he couldn't fit the ball into tight windows and such... That proved to be worth a whole bunch of nothing at the end of the day.

I don't think Fields fell because of some testing snafu, but I think it's moreso to do with what guys such as Wilson/Trey CAN do with the off balance throws from different arm slots and such.

I still think Fields is going to be better than Wilson... and about as good as Lance.

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