Brady vs Jordan for 2nd greatest North American Athlete of all-time

[Billy86]

17 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I don’t know this. 

I think most non-NBA fans know of Michael Jordan than non-hockey fans know of Gretzky.

Fame does not equal excellence though, otherwise David Beckham would be one of the top 10 soccer players to have ever lived. 

[Billy86]

16 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

If we are talking about Brady v Jordan then Im clearly going with Jordan. Why? Jordan dominated his sport. He won 6 titles and he took 2 yrs off which opened the door for others to win. Im convinced if Jordan didnt take 2yrs off the Bulls wouldve won 8 straight titles plus they couldve kept on winning had the team not split after the 1998 season. Plus Jordan never lost in the Finals (6-0). Brady lost a few times. He got beat by Eli twice and Foles once. Even when the Pats had an undefeated regular season Brady couldnt finish the job with a championship. Jordan led the Bulls to a (72-10) season which at the time was the best record in NBA history and he led the team a championship that season. The Warriors eventually top that with a (73-9) season but even they couldnt finish the job with a championship that season. So again if I had to choose between Jordan and Brady its easy for me. Im going with Jordan. 

I'm up in the air over Jordan vs Brady but have to take issue with the bolded part as it always comes up in any lebron discussion. It makes no sense to claim someone did better by failing to make it to a final than someone who did make it but was unable to win said final. It's the same as saying finishing 8th is better than finishing 2nd.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Billy86

[Billy86]

48 minutes ago, Art_Vandalay said:

I'm with ya, bro. If this is a discussion that includes Tom Brady, then Tiger Woods absolutely needs to be part of it. He's absolutely the GQBOAT, but I'm hard-pressed to call him a great "athlete"

I don't know, I mean the definition of athlete is "a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise" and if we're arguing based on physical abilities then the greatest ever athlete in that sense may never have amounted to an awful lot due to lack of brains/lack of focus/correct situation/injury issues etc. 

[Bearerofnews]

I have Gretzky as my 8th best NHL

Jordan as my 11th best NBA

Brady as my 7th best NFL

So.. brady? Please respect my opinions and don't question them.

[Snake Plissken]

Everyone in North American Hockey knows who is the greatest hockey player... Wayne Gretzky.  Even his nickname says it "The Great One".  There really is no debate in hockey circles.   There isn't a Lebron, Kareem, or Kobe, to Michael or Montana, Manning, or Brees to Brady.  You won't see the talking heads on Sports programing having the same debates on the who is the NHL Goat they way they do in the NBA or NFL.

Gretzky holds something like 60 NHL records.  Both his NHL individual stats (As Skippy X pointed out, Gretzky has more assists than Jagr has points) and accomplishments (MVPs, Scoring Titles) are far ahead of his peers with many considered unbreakable.

To put his scoring stats into context, Jordan (who is 5th in all time scoring) would need to play about 10 more years at his scoring average to put the same distance between him and Kareem Abdul Jabar.   Brady (who is first in passing TDs) would need to play more than 6 years at his scoring average to be that far ahead of Brees.  

 

 His number 99 was retired by the entire NHL.  He is so respected as a player and person that his number is pretty much unofficially retired at all levels of hockey.  You won't see (or very, very rarely) a #99 jersey at the youth, AAA, high school college, or beer league level.  Wearing that number is like putting yourself in the same category as Gretzky, and there is only one #99.

[Soko]

57 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

Fame does not equal excellence though, otherwise David Beckham would be one of the top 10 soccer players to have ever lived. 

But it’s relevant. If it’s purely on championships/rings/cups/medals and dominance above peers, then there are plenty of Olympian’s that flat out destroy Michael/Brady/Gretzky.

[lancerman]

11 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

But it’s relevant. If it’s purely on championships/rings/cups/medals and dominance above peers, then there are plenty of Olympian’s that flat out destroy Michael/Brady/Gretzky.

And they do.... Ali was the greatest boxer on the planet when he fought. He beat all the best fighters and has the greatest resume of matches. You also can’t say “oh well he had a good teak around him”. He was also globally recognizable and the country stopped to watch his biggest fights in a way you only see for SB’s nowadays. 
 

If we aren’t limiting it to team sports, he’s clearly ahead of then. Bolt likewise. Numbers are numbers and Bolt simply is the fastest sprinter to ever live. Hell as a pure athletes and what he did in his prime, Bruce Jenner would give them a run for their money as well. 

[Soko]

6 minutes ago, lancerman said:

And they do....

I mean, my quote thread started with the OP’s opening sentence...

”We all know Gretzky is the greatest athlete of all time...”

Which again, isn’t such an obvious thing, even if we’re talking team sports only (that was never stated). 

[Art_Vandalay]

1 hour ago, Billy86 said:

I don't know, I mean the definition of athlete is "a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise" and if we're arguing based on physical abilities then the greatest ever athlete in that sense may never have amounted to an awful lot due to lack of brains/lack of focus/correct situation/injury issues etc. 

And a sport is "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment." So, Joey Chestnut can technically be part of this conversation. Everyone's opinion is going to be different on this one. But when thinking of GOAT athletes, I'd personally prefer to leave out old slow fat people like golfers, regardless of whether or not they're great at their respective sport. I'm going to consider Phil Mickelson a great golfer, not a great athlete.

Brady's football IQ and focus are unprecedented, which is in part why he's the GQBOAT. But IMO, he's not a great athlete. MJ on the other hand had insane physical skill and was able to combine that with the IQ and focus to carry his team to championships each year.

[Billy86]

43 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

But it’s relevant. If it’s purely on championships/rings/cups/medals and dominance above peers, then there are plenty of Olympian’s that flat out destroy Michael/Brady/Gretzky.

It's a mix of individual performance (both peak and longevity/consistency), honours achieved, and arguably innovation in your position/sport for the most part in my opinion. Brady ticks all three boxes about perfectly, though I actually think it's his longevity (and consistency over that time) that puts him ahead of the pack of other qbs more than the rings. 

An argument can definitely be made for the fame of a chosen sport (e.g. being the best soccer player in the US and scoring 5 goals a game for 20 years straight in MLS has no comparison to being the best American footballer in the US... unkess you move to Europe and utterly dominated there), but individual fame based outside of sports is a different matter.

Beckham rose to such prominence for example because he was dating a Spice Girl when they were the biggest thing on the planet and had great hair/looks that got him on so many ads in the 90s when the sport (and especially premier league) were exploding globally from a commercial standpoint, as well as an very sellable way about him in general. However, none of this takes away from the fact he was only the 3rd best player on his team from what was the equivalent of of his draft class (but good luck getting Paul Scholes to hawk Brylcreem for you!). 

[7DnBrnc53]

4 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Jerry Rice will still always be the GOAT for me in all things football. Bulk stats, longevity, clearly #1 at his position for an absurd length of time making that prime window a reality, rings, transcendent and stupid year stat lines at some point and time. 11 consecutive 1,000+ yard seasons, 10 of which were 1200 or more, and the only one that wasn't was the strike shortened 12 game 1987 season, the same one where he caught 22 TD. 

I would have LT, Jim Brown, and Mean Joe Greene as the best NFL players ever. LT made people stay up at night. He changed the game.

Guys like Rice, Brady, and Montana that have been deified over the years have benefited greatly from the late-70's rule changes that opened up the passing game. They don't have the same career if they played in an earlier era.

As for Jordan, his 6-0 Finals mark was earned in a watered-down league. As Mike Greenberg said once (who covered the 96 Bulls), the teams from the 80's (83 Sixers, 80's Celtics and Lakers) would wipe the floor with the 72-win Bulls (or any of the other Bulls teams).

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

I would have LT, Jim Brown, and Mean Joe Greene as the best NFL players ever. LT made people stay up at night. He changed the game.

Guys like Rice, Brady, and Montana that have been deified over the years have benefited greatly from the late-70's rule changes that opened up the passing game. They don't have the same career if they played in an earlier era.

As for Jordan, his 6-0 Finals mark was earned in a watered-down league. As Mike Greenberg said once (who covered the 96 Bulls), the teams from the 80's (83 Sixers, 80's Celtics and Lakers) would wipe the floor with the 72-win Bulls (or any of the other Bulls teams).

This take is absolute garbage. I bet you’re 85 years old.

[7DnBrnc53]

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

This take is absolute garbage. I bet you’re 85 years old.

What's garbage is to say a player is great just because he played on a team that won seven world titles (a team accomplishment). When you do that, you are basically saying that Trent Dilfer is better than Marino because he has a ring, and Marino doesn't.

[Jameson_Neat]

I don't think we'll see the level of dominance Gretzky displayed every again in team sports.

99 was playing on a completely different level than anyone else in the game over a 6-7 year span.

It was a a treat to follow as a kid.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by BofaDeez54927

[Nick_gb]

On 5/3/2021 at 6:16 PM, NeptunePenguins said:

We all know Gretzky is the greatest athlete of all-time but has Brady pass Michael Jordan after getting his 7th?

Uhm can we please never compare Tom Brady and Michael Jordan when it comes to athleticism again? Thanks