Week 4: Steelers @ Lambeau Field

[HighCalebR]

8 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Yeah and now PIT DL has some film on Yosh.   Bosa had nothing to study

 

They had 3 games to study and its a noob at LT. they don't have much more to go off now than they did a week ago.. Watch out for chips and we're going to do what's in the power of the offense to slow him down.... Like every offense with a less than great LT. Its not a secret lol.

[ThatJerkDave]

I feel like everyone is short selling Yosh's mediocrity.  He is not a liability.  I think he had two bad plays against the Texans starters in preseason, and everyone thinks he is just a sieve.  He did fine against both the Jets and Bills, who also played their starters.  He held up just fine against the 49ers.  Yes, he will need some chips from the TE or RB.  Yes, the QB needs to get the ball out quick.  That is standard for any back-up tackle.  Yosh is fine.

[incognito_man]

9 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Yeah and now PIT DL has some film on Yosh.   Bosa had nothing to study

 

I must assume you mean that PIT DL will now be more intimidated than Bosa was

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I feel like everyone is short selling Yosh's mediocrity.  He is not a liability.  I think he had two bad plays against the Texans starters in preseason, and everyone thinks he is just a sieve.  He did fine against both the Jets and Bills, who also played their starters.  He held up just fine against the 49ers.  Yes, he will need some chips from the TE or RB.  Yes, the QB needs to get the ball out quick.  That is standard for any back-up tackle.  Yosh is fine.

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I feel like everyone is short selling Yosh's mediocrity.  He is not a liability.  I think he had two bad plays against the Texans starters in preseason, and everyone thinks he is just a sieve.  He did fine against both the Jets and Bills, who also played their starters.  He held up just fine against the 49ers.  Yes, he will need some chips from the TE or RB.  Yes, the QB needs to get the ball out quick.  That is standard for any back-up tackle.  Yosh is fine.

I agree. I speculated including him in our top 5 might yield the best overall line while Bakh is out.

[HighCalebR]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I feel like everyone is short selling Yosh's mediocrity.  He is not a liability.  I think he had two bad plays against the Texans starters in preseason, and everyone thinks he is just a sieve.  He did fine against both the Jets and Bills, who also played their starters.  He held up just fine against the 49ers.  Yes, he will need some chips from the TE or RB.  Yes, the QB needs to get the ball out quick.  That is standard for any back-up tackle.  Yosh is fine.

He just needs reps against the high end talent of the league. Not many people compare to guys like Bosa and Heyward. Im the conductor on the Yosh train, theres just some **** he's never seen before.

[Joe]

@Steeler HitmanBen seemed lost as if he didn't know what to do. He looked panicked and we all know it wasn't completely on him. I didn't know about the comments from the former Steelers, but they don't surprise me at all. In a way, I actually feel bad for Steelers fans because it's like that team has no identity outside of their defense and doesn't seem to have direction. I think Tomlin has to go and they need to hire a Byron Leftwich type and start over at QB. It's not that Tomlin can't coach, it's that things have gotten stale. 

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I feel like everyone is short selling Yosh's mediocrity.  He is not a liability.  I think he had two bad plays against the Texans starters in preseason, and everyone thinks he is just a sieve.  He did fine against both the Jets and Bills, who also played their starters.  He held up just fine against the 49ers.  Yes, he will need some chips from the TE or RB.  Yes, the QB needs to get the ball out quick.  That is standard for any back-up tackle.  Yosh is fine.

Since when? Our issue with Yosh was that he didn't have any experience and he was going up against one of the best 4-3 Power EDGE guys in the league. That's a major concern for anyone that falls into Yosh's category before that game. He played well and wasn't a liability as you mentioned so frankly he should have an easier time against an odd front and if he sucks against TJ Watt, we shouldn't be surprised because it's TJ friggin' Watt...

[ThatJerkDave]

15 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I agree. I speculated including him in our top 5 might yield the best overall line while Bakh is out.

I think keeping Yosh at LT and moving Jenkins back to LG is a superior line.  Let Newman, Runyan, and Patrick battle for the RG spot.  Plus, it is less shuffling when Bakhtiari is back.

4 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

He just needs reps against the high end talent of the league. Not many people compare to guys like Bosa and Heyward. Im the conductor on the Yosh train, theres just some **** he's never seen before.

Indeed you are.  I'm on board.  I think he had a couple of bad plays against the Texans, and otherwise has been fine so far.  Is he Bakhtiari? No.  But there are like 3 guys that could step in and be that good.  Yosh has been just fine.

[ThatJerkDave]

5 minutes ago, Joe said:

Since when? Our issue with Yosh was that he didn't have any experience and he was going up against one of the best 4-3 Power EDGE guys in the league. That's a major concern for anyone that falls into Yosh's category before that game. He played well and wasn't a liability as you mentioned so frankly he should have an easier time against an odd front and if he sucks against TJ Watt, we shouldn't be surprised because it's TJ friggin' Watt...

Perhaps I am misremembering.  But I thought there was very little confidence when Jenkins went out.  The only way a player gets experience is by... getting experience.  Yosh is a 25 year old second year UDFA.  He played pretty well in preseason as well.  

[incognito_man]

10 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Perhaps I am misremembering.  But I thought there was very little confidence when Jenkins went out.  The only way a player gets experience is by... getting experience.  Yosh is a 25 year old second year UDFA.  He played pretty well in preseason as well.  

I'm 100% sure that EVERYONE was calling those people who believed Yosh would do ok "naive" and/or "delusional".

[Steeler Hitman]

1 minute ago, Joe said:

@Steeler Hitman

Quote

Ben seemed lost as if he didn't know what to do. He looked panicked and we all know it wasn't completely on him. I didn't know about the comments from the former Steelers, but they don't surprise me at all.

You are 100% correct. He doesn't have some of his security blankets of the past. It certainly didn't help that Dionte was hurt (he seems to favor targeting him over anyone else (at least stats wise). It also appears that he doesn't have the confidence in the OL to consistently do their job (and rightfully so).  Success breeds confidence and no success = no confidence. hence some of the they quit comments from Tyler Boyd and a few other Bengals. 

Quote

In a way, I actually feel bad for Steelers fans because it's like that team has no identity outside of their defense and doesn't seem to have direction.

I think that you are partially correct here. They are definitely searching for an identity. The blueprint for what the Steelers ultimately want to be is a tough, blue collar, smash mouth team that plays great defense and can throw well if needed. The execution of this plan is where they are struggling. It takes time to build and rebuild. Not lost in all of this is the team imploding somewhat and losing two very valuable offensive stars that have yet to be replaced production wise (AB and Bell). I think Najee can be and may even surpass Bell if he can stay healthy. I think he has more natural upside as a RB. But losing those weapons were a large part of this offense and its identity. They lost that and are trying to change from high powered to tough in the trenches. The style of OL went from maulers to guys who can pass block and shield defenders. I agree they are definitely in flux, but I do believe that they know what they want to do and become. Becoming that is much tougher. 

 

 

Quote

I think Tomlin has to go and they need to hire a Byron Leftwich type and start over at QB. It's not that Tomlin can't coach, it's that things have gotten stale. 

Many in Steeler Nation would agree and many would not. I am still somewhat on the fence. I am not going to make my decision based on three games, but to say that I am not disappointed in the execution and direction that this team is trending would be untrue. They are, I believe, 2-7 in their last 9 games.  I would also like to see what Coach T could do starting from scratch. He can frustrate the heck out of you by underwhelming and underachieving at times, but he also has pockets of greatness and inspiration. The pendulum swings very wide with him. It is also hard to fire a guy who has not had any losing seasons and has dealt with the egos and dysfunction that this organization has endured. 

Since when? Our issue with Yosh was that he didn't have any experience and he was going up against one of the best 4-3 Power EDGE guys in the league. That's a major concern for anyone that falls into Yosh's category before that game. He played well and wasn't a liability as you mentioned so frankly he should have an easier time against an odd front and if he sucks against TJ Watt, we shouldn't be surprised because it's TJ friggin' Watt...

 

[Shanedorf]

2 hours ago, incognito_man said:

I must assume you mean that PIT DL will now be more intimidated than Bosa was

Absolutely !
I meant that pass rushers spend a lot of time studying how the OT sets up in their stance, how they balance their weight on a bull rush vs an inside move. Where do they set their hands, is the OT a knee or waist-bender ? They spend time looking for "tells" and weaknesses they can exploit - either on their initial rush or when they re-set after getting stoned. Bosa had zero to go off of, Pit DL will have slightly more than zero. That's what I meant.

Conversely, Mr Nijman has reams of film to study on the Pit guys and he and Bakh can run film together this week. Heck of a start to your NFL career getting Bosa and Watt out of the gate. 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

45 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I think keeping Yosh at LT and moving Jenkins back to LG is a superior line.  Let Newman, Runyan, and Patrick battle for the RG spot.  Plus, it is less shuffling when Bakhtiari is back.

Indeed you are.  I'm on board.  I think he had a couple of bad plays against the Texans, and otherwise has been fine so far.  Is he Bakhtiari? No.  But there are like 3 guys that could step in and be that good.  Yosh has been just fine.

I think if you are looking at purely the best talent on the field I wouldn't agree with this, but when you add in continuity you may be right. When Bakhtiari comes back I have wondered if the best line combo wouldn't be moving Jenkins to RT, kicking Turner into right guard and letting the three others battle for the LG spot. That messes with continuity again though so that would be better served as an offseason transition rather than mid-season. 

[ThatJerkDave]

 

20 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I think that you are partially correct here. They are definitely searching for an identity. The blueprint for what the Steelers ultimately want to be is a tough, blue collar, smash mouth team that plays great defense and can throw well if needed. The execution of this plan is where they are struggling. It takes time to build and rebuild. Not lost in all of this is the team imploding somewhat and losing two very valuable offensive stars that have yet to be replaced production wise (AB and Bell). I think Najee can be and may even surpass Bell if he can stay healthy. I think he has more natural upside as a RB. But losing those weapons were a large part of this offense and its identity. They lost that and are trying to change from high powered to tough in the trenches. The style of OL went from maulers to guys who can pass block and shield defenders. I agree they are definitely in flux, but I do believe that they know what they want to do and become. Becoming that is much tougher. 

Those two things are usually difficult to mesh.  I would cite our mid 2000s switch from Sherman to McCarthy.  The OL struggled with the pieces in place more of the mauler types and McCarthy preferred the finesse blockers.  It took a while, and we were never more than adequate, IMO, at running the ball.  

It is an outside perspective, but would you say that the Steelers give up on the run too early and too often? It seems to me that the team as currently configured just passes and passes and passes. 

I think that in your explanation for what the Steelers want to be:  tough, blue collar, smash mouth team that plays great defense and can throw well if needed fits what is there, minus the ability to run.  The defense looks swarming and fast.  I think Ben can operate an offense, just not carry it anymore.  But it seems for whatever reason, they are asking Ben to throw the ball 40 times per game.  I just compared the Steelers to the Packers and the Browns (random) for pass attempts and rush attempts so far this season. 

Pass attempts:  Steelers - 130 Browns - 80 Packers - 95

Rush attempts:  Steelers - 50 Browns - 102  Packers - 71

That is just a poor balance.  

[ThatJerkDave]

9 minutes ago, CrazyJoeDavola said:

I think if you are looking at purely the best talent on the field I wouldn't agree with this, but when you add in continuity you may be right. When Bakhtiari comes back I have wondered if the best line combo wouldn't be moving Jenkins to RT, kicking Turner into right guard and letting the three others battle for the LG spot. That messes with continuity again though so that would be better served as an offseason transition rather than mid-season. 

Just a thought before I go on a walk (been sitting on my *** in the office all day so far).  Are we all maybe looking to fix something that isn't broken with Billy Turner? We keep signing a veteran tackle and because of the veteranness of him, and the fact that Turner did at one point play guard, we assume Billy will be replaced or moved.  But has he really been that bad at tackle, or on the other hand been that good at guard that you would want him there?  

Or maybe I just see Jenkins as a possible high end guard but middle of the road tackle.