Forge Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: The Marlins have very little incentize to get any kind of list, and no incentive to leak it. Them getting high bids from no-go teams could be used to pressure teams that Stanton wouldn't waive his NTC for to make better offers. There's a reason Lucroy situations happen, it's because the Brewers held the leverage with Lucroy just like the Marlins do with Stanton. Let me put it this way, if you were selling your house and had 3 offers, the best one of which was from a person who probably couldn't get a mortgage, would you broadcast that before you absolutely had to? Completely off topic, but I'm actually in the process of selling my house lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Just now, Forge said: Completely off topic, but I'm actually in the process of selling my house lol So if you get some dumbass who wants to buy it with nothing down and has completely tapped out the bank on their mortgage, don't tell any other buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 27 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: The Marlins have very little incentize to get any kind of list, and no incentive to leak it. Them getting high bids from no-go teams could be used to pressure teams that Stanton wouldn't waive his NTC for to make better offers. There's a reason Lucroy situations happen, it's because the Brewers held the leverage with Lucroy just like the Marlins do with Stanton. Let me put it this way, if you were selling your house and had 3 offers, the best one of which was from a person who probably couldn't get a mortgage, would you broadcast that before you absolutely had to? Obviously, they have no incentive to leak it. That kills the value, but they're also wasting time negotiating with teams that Stanton has no interest in going to. I mean, what do you think the purpose of the meeting between Jeter and Stanton? To me, that comes off as a pretty straight-forward discussion into the future (i.e. whether or not Stanton wants to be there, where Stanton would be willing to go, etc.). At the end of the day, who feels more pressure to see a Stanton deal go down, Miami or Giancarlo Stanton? My guess is the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Obviously, they have no incentive to leak it. That kills the value, but they're also wasting time negotiating with teams that Stanton has no interest in going to. I mean, what do you think the purpose of the meeting between Jeter and Stanton? To me, that comes off as a pretty straight-forward discussion into the future (i.e. whether or not Stanton wants to be there, where Stanton would be willing to go, etc.). At the end of the day, who feels more pressure to see a Stanton deal go down, Miami or Giancarlo Stanton? My guess is the former. They're not wasting time at all. They're haggling for leverage over the teams that Stanton might want to go to, and they'd be dumb not to let everyone max out their bids just like @Forge would be dumb to not at least listen to the offer from the people who can't afford his house. We don't know the purpose of the meeting, and it could have been as simple as an in-person courtesy to let him know that they'd be seeking offers and would let him know if terms were coming close. Other teams have given franchise type players the same courtesy. If Stanton is willing to waive his NTC at multiple different areas, then he feels more pressure. The Marlins have a guy who might win the MVP under contract for at least the next few years. That's leverage, not pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: They're not wasting time at all. They're haggling for leverage over the teams that Stanton might want to go to, and they'd be dumb not to let everyone max out their bids just like @Forge would be dumb to not at least listen to the offer from the people who can't afford his house. We don't know the purpose of the meeting, and it could have been as simple as an in-person courtesy to let him know that they'd be seeking offers and would let him know if terms were coming close. Other teams have given franchise type players the same courtesy. If Stanton is willing to waive his NTC at multiple different areas, then he feels more pressure. The Marlins have a guy who might win the MVP under contract for at least the next few years. That's leverage, not pressure. Except if they get into deep negotiations with say the Phillies, only to have Stanton nix the deal they likely come off as incompetent as they've likely at that point told teams to put forth their best offers. LIS, I'd be very, very surprised if the Marlins didn't have a relatively good idea of what teams Stanton would accept a trade to and which ones he wouldn't. The fact is that Miami HAS to move contracts in order to move salary. If they don't move Stanton, who do they move? They've got a TON of dead salary on the books. Dee Gordon, Marcel Ozuna, and Christian Yelich are really the only other players who have significant value, and the Marlins haven't shown any real willingness to move Ozuna or Yelich. So unless they're getting a situation where they can tag on Martin Prado or Wei-Yen Chen, they're kind of stuck. Moving Stanton is the easiest (and quickest) way to clear salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Except if they get into deep negotiations with say the Phillies, only to have Stanton nix the deal they likely come off as incompetent as they've likely at that point told teams to put forth their best offers. LIS, I'd be very, very surprised if the Marlins didn't have a relatively good idea of what teams Stanton would accept a trade to and which ones he wouldn't. The fact is that Miami HAS to move contracts in order to move salary. If they don't move Stanton, who do they move? They've got a TON of dead salary on the books. Dee Gordon, Marcel Ozuna, and Christian Yelich are really the only other players who have significant value, and the Marlins haven't shown any real willingness to move Ozuna or Yelich. So unless they're getting a situation where they can tag on Martin Prado or Wei-Yen Chen, they're kind of stuck. Moving Stanton is the easiest (and quickest) way to clear salary. The fact that Stanton has a very public NT clause means neither the Phillies nor Marlins would have any incentive to leak that a deal was agreed to until Stanton is on board to avoid embarrassment. That's not going to be a factor. And honestly, the public perception piece of this is completely overexaggerated. The Brewers have had 2 major trades nixed after agreements were announced, and each time found a new deal in 24 hours. Stanton's value won't change overnight, and they'd still have teams at their best offer. They've already talked about moving Dee Gordon and Martin Prado. We're a week into a months long offseason, pretending that they have to clear salary now and the easiest/only way to do it now is by trading their best player is a tired used car salesman tactic. They have plenty of time to reduce payroll in other ways in the meantime. So, no, the Marlins still have the asset and that means they still have the leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 5 hours ago, bigbadbuff23835 said: No shot on Hosmer. Not when we have Bird for nothing. I don't trust Bird. He is injury prone and even when he has played he has been terrible. He got good at end of season but he is still a huuuuge question mark. Hosmer would at least give us a .285 career hitter. Him and Bird could rotate between DH and 1B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 14 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: The fact that Stanton has a very public NT clause means neither the Phillies nor Marlins would have any incentive to leak that a deal was agreed to until Stanton is on board to avoid embarrassment. That's not going to be a factor. And honestly, the public perception piece of this is completely overexaggerated. The Brewers have had 2 major trades nixed after agreements were announced, and each time found a new deal in 24 hours. Stanton's value won't change overnight, and they'd still have teams at their best offer. They've already talked about moving Dee Gordon and Martin Prado. We're a week into a months long offseason, pretending that they have to clear salary now and the easiest/only way to do it now is by trading their best player is a tired used car salesman tactic. They have plenty of time to reduce payroll in other ways in the meantime. So, no, the Marlins still have the asset and that means they still have the leverage. Does anyone truly believe that a deal of this magnitude is somehow going to stay completely quiet? No. It'll leak one way or the other, and when it comes out someone's going to have egg on their face. Look at the Lucroy deal, even if Lucroy didn't accept a deal to Cleveland how many other teams were still in on him? There were quite a few. I'm not sure that's the case with Stanton. As I said, there's only a handful of teams who can take on that salary without the Marlins eating a significant portion of it. You've got St. Louis, Boston, and Los Angeles (Dodgers) as the only teams who have a pretty straight-forward payroll situation. San Francisco is already pretty tapped financially, Philadelphia has clear financial flexibility but not a real competitive roster. As for moving Dee Gordon, that moves $10.5M off the books from this year. Unfortunately, they have to move some $40M or something along those lines. That's a small chunk. It's doable, but it's not the significant move that clears things significantly. As for Prado, I'd imagine that at best we're looking at a pure salary dump. He's got 2 years, $28.5M left on his deal and he's coming off a -0.1 WAR season in which he only played in 37 games. Best case scenario, they're pretty much eating a large chunk of that salary and getting minimal in return. The Marlins' payroll can essentially be classified into 3 categories: Giancarlo Stanton, dead payroll (Martin Prado, Edinson Volquez, Junichi Tazawa, etc.), and their young players (Dee Gordon, Christian Yelich, Marcel Ozuna). Assuming they want to keep the young players, that severely limits their flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbuff23835 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 52 minutes ago, marshawn lynch said: I don't trust Bird. He is injury prone and even when he has played he has been terrible. He got good at end of season but he is still a huuuuge question mark. Hosmer would at least give us a .285 career hitter. Him and Bird could rotate between DH and 1B. What??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 10 hours ago, marshawn lynch said: I don't trust Bird. He is injury prone and even when he has played he has been terrible. He got good at end of season but he is still a huuuuge question mark. Hosmer would at least give us a .285 career hitter. Him and Bird could rotate between DH and 1B. He had two unrelated injuries. Make no mistake about it, Greg Bird is held in extremely high regards within The Yanks. It's not just Gary and Judge, it's Gary, Judge and Greg Bird. 1% chance we sign Hosmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 10 hours ago, CWood21 said: Does anyone truly believe that a deal of this magnitude is somehow going to stay completely quiet? No. It'll leak one way or the other, and when it comes out someone's going to have egg on their face. Look at the Lucroy deal, even if Lucroy didn't accept a deal to Cleveland how many other teams were still in on him? There were quite a few. I'm not sure that's the case with Stanton. As I said, there's only a handful of teams who can take on that salary without the Marlins eating a significant portion of it. You've got St. Louis, Boston, and Los Angeles (Dodgers) as the only teams who have a pretty straight-forward payroll situation. San Francisco is already pretty tapped financially, Philadelphia has clear financial flexibility but not a real competitive roster. Big deals stay secret all the time. The Lucroy deal leaked because the Brewers FO leaked it. Hell, the night the deal was agreed to, David Stearns showed up on the Brewers TV broadcast and gave a "well it's not official until it's official but there are reports out there" answer. If the Marlins have concerns about the team they are trading Stanton to, they won't leak it. These deals are known by 3 parties, the 2 teams involved and the player/agent. None of those parties are going to have any incentive to leak that a deal was agreed to, then nixed by Stanton's no-trade clause. If the Astros transcripts should tell us anything, it's that most big name trade discussions aren't leaked. But honestly, having egg on your face in a newspaper isn't that big a deal. How many casual baseball fans remember trades that get nixed, like Lucroy-Indians, Gomez-Mets, or any number of the Orioles trades? It's really not that big a deal, and absolutely not worth reducing the number of teams making offers. Especially when the majority of teams can't afford him. 11 hours ago, CWood21 said: As for moving Dee Gordon, that moves $10.5M off the books from this year. Unfortunately, they have to move some $40M or something along those lines. That's a small chunk. It's doable, but it's not the significant move that clears things significantly. As for Prado, I'd imagine that at best we're looking at a pure salary dump. He's got 2 years, $28.5M left on his deal and he's coming off a -0.1 WAR season in which he only played in 37 games. Best case scenario, they're pretty much eating a large chunk of that salary and getting minimal in return. The Marlins' payroll can essentially be classified into 3 categories: Giancarlo Stanton, dead payroll (Martin Prado, Edinson Volquez, Junichi Tazawa, etc.), and their young players (Dee Gordon, Christian Yelich, Marcel Ozuna). Assuming they want to keep the young players, that severely limits their flexibility. No one has ever said the Marlins "have" to move $40M. There have been reports that it is a goal from ownership, but they aren't going to rush to sell Stanton when he's under contract for either 3 years or more than a decade because they absolutely need to move him now. You're trying to drum up this sense of urgency that just isn't going to be there. Dee Gordon gets you $10M, Prado probably saves you $10-15M over the life of the deal, so let's call it $5M. That's $15M. Brad Ziegler is movable, that gets you to $24M. You're already within somewhere $15M of the ownership goal whether or not you trade Stanton, and ownership isn't going to lose leverage on a potential half a billion dollar deal because of $15M. That doesn't even include a potential deal for Ozuna, which I'd be willing to bet the Marlins would prefer instead of losing leverage in a Stanton deal. It also doesn't include potential deadline sell-offs for a guy like Tazawa if he pitches better. Teams are completely willing to take on salary for middling relievers like that, see the Brewers-Cardinals Jonathan Broxton trade. One other thing they might be able to do is convince a guy like Realmuto or Straily to sign an extension without team control of a free agent year in exchange for a lower arbitration salary. They could also try and find a guy who has his guaranteed money spread out a little more, like the Nick Swisher-Chris Johnson trade. There are plenty of ways the Marlins can cut payroll significantly and get close enough to their ownership goals and keep Stanton. That means they have leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Its not going to be a 1-on-1 negotiation if this happens though tbh. The Marlins are going to be in talks with several teams until the last minutes so when [insert team Giancarlo finds acceptable] wins, whose to say he wouldn't have waived his no trade clause for the other 4-5 teams involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texansfan713 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Looks like Astros interested in Lucroy. I wouldn't mind him even though there is no need for a bat. McCann's option wont be picked up in 2018 and Gattis is a FA after next season, so Lucroy could be our starting C after next season. Our farm system is very thin with catching prospects too. He could be a nice buy low candidate for someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Scanned @ramssuperbowl99's post waiting for him to acknowledge Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, redsoxsuck05 said: Scanned @ramssuperbowl99's post waiting for him to acknowledge Jeter Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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