The good, the bad, the we suck again vs. WFT edition

[ronjon1990]

Just now, BackinBlack said:

Obvioulsly this game is on the O, dont think anyone is blaming the D.
They played a great game. Wish Moehrig had just came up with the int at the end. 

All off season, I said give Carr an average D and then we will see. We did that, and its still not working. 

We are going to look completely Different next year, if new coach wants to keep Carr fine, if he wants new qb fine. I just want an offensive minded coach.
Id rather go down swinging, then playing this conservative boring crap. 

Meh, we also said Carr needed weapons and have given him a sub 4 ypc RB, a backup TE, Zay Jones, and someone that used to be known as Desean Jackson that comes in once every 6 or 7 plays while gutting our offensive line. 

Even if we had a great D, we gutted the offense down to the point of barely having one. 

If we still had Ruggs, Agholor, Gabe, Hudson, and Incognito to go with Renfrow, Waller, Jacobs/Drake, and Jones/Edwards, I think we would've looked much much better on offense, especially with the D we have that's better but not perfect. 

Basically Carr with last year's offense + 2021's defense = likely high success.

Carr with 2021's offense + defense = essentially no offense to speak of.

 

[BackinBlack]

5 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Meh, we also said Carr needed weapons and have given him a sub 4 ypc RB, a backup TE, Zay Jones, and someone that used to be known as Desean Jackson that comes in once every 6 or 7 plays while gutting our offensive line. 

Even if we had a great D, we gutted the offense down to the point of barely having one. 

If we still had Ruggs, Agholor, Gabe, Hudson, and Incognito to go with Renfrow, Waller, Jacobs/Drake, and Jones/Edwards, I think we would've looked much much better on offense, especially with the D we have that's better but not perfect. 

Basically Carr with last year's offense + 2021's defense = likely high success.

Carr with 2021's offense + defense = essentially no offense to speak of.

 

Trust me I agree, our O doesnt have a ton of talent. I think a lot of it has to do with our oline being very very poor. 
But, Carr has shown that he can succeed with this O. 

He simply just doesnt throw the ball down field enough. He is too happy being conservative. 
Last few years, ive understood being conservative as our D couldnt stop anything, but in a game like yesterday we shouldve taken shots because our D was playing well.
When we did throw, we found success doing it. Then the run game started moving a bit too, why? Because the D had to back off. 

I think our next coach will be 50-50 on keeping DC. I will be fine either way.
If we move on, (and Carr goes to NFC) I will still root for Carr to have success. His 8 years in the league have been pretty rough, and he deserves one stable season lol would love to see him in NO.

[Jeremy408]

7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

The Jaguars once held the Bills to 6 points. 

Nobody is gonna be caught dead saying that the Jaguars have a "good" defense. 

Totality of the circumstances. We can't make stops when they count, we haven't made adjustments to address things that beat us up every week. 

1. The Jags handle business that day. Regardless of how the defense has played all season, you have to give them credit when it's due

2. And the Jags defense is not the Raiders defense in terms of talent or production. 

3. Sure one can make that claim, but here's the overall problem I have with that: and speaks to what I feel like kind of always happens the Raiders lose. Everyone starts at the same place which is being mad at a particular thing that's obviously the problem(in this case the offenses scoring one touchdown the entire game and 15 points overall stalling in the red zone multiple times. It can't be said that it's a fluke either because the same thing happened against the Bears the Giants, and the bengals, until like the last Drive). Then what happens is that slowly but surely everyone starts shifting the blame to why the other side of the ball(in this case the defense) wasn't able to compensate for how poor the problem side of the ball played.

The same exact thing happened the last two years: when the Raiders win lose because the other team was scoring 30 points a game including in the last 30 seconds of games, everyone would start at the same place (which is that the Defense was atrocious), and slowly but surely the blame would start to shift to "well if Derek Carr scored more points" and they would use that key term "when it counts". I feel like the similar thing is happening this year. 

[oakdb36]

It's the other players' fault Carr is missing wide open guys almost every week in the end zone.

[Jeremy408]

12 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Basically Carr with last year's offense + 2021's defense = likely high success.

^This 

[Dessie]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

It is ridiculous. They allowed 7 points through 3 quarters and the team was still trailing. Let's blame the defense...

Yup agreed, ridiculous to blame the defense, sure we want better run defense and more turnovers but defense wasn’t the problem yesterday. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

Do you not constantly say that our O not having long drives makes them tired?
While also saying that yards mean nothing?

Because 1. you are blaming the O as an excuse for the D
And 2. Yards mean we are driving the ball, which would keep the D off the field . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

If you see where I am going with this haha

Defense excuse = fatigue from being on the field too much

offense excuse = carr, oline, wrs, Olsen, rbs etc 

see the difference 

Our defense is full of guys we dam near pulled off the streets last second and rookies but no one is complaining you just get it done. Defense performs bad no excuses just hold each other accountable. Offense performs bad and it’s everyone’s fault and every excuse under the sun. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

 

This is not the first game Dabo has attended fwiw. 

Yea hunter said dabo has been present twice yesterday and last time was 2 years ago vs the jets. A lot has happened in 2 yrs for us and Clemson 

[oakdb36]

Edit: Math was wrong!

Edited December 6, 2021 by oakdb36

[jpaulthe1st]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

Meh, we also said Carr needed weapons and have given him a sub 4 ypc RB, a backup TE, Zay Jones, and someone that used to be known as Desean Jackson that comes in once every 6 or 7 plays while gutting our offensive line. 

Even if we had a great D, we gutted the offense down to the point of barely having one. 

If we still had Ruggs, Agholor, Gabe, Hudson, and Incognito to go with Renfrow, Waller, Jacobs/Drake, and Jones/Edwards, I think we would've looked much much better on offense, especially with the D we have that's better but not perfect. 

Basically Carr with last year's offense + 2021's defense = likely high success.

Carr with 2021's offense + defense = essentially no offense to speak of.

 

So we are back to giving Carr every excuse for the lack of success of the team. Same story year in and year out. Wash, rinse, repeat. 
 

He is not the reason we are losing but he certainly isn’t helping either. 
 

Time to turn the page and move on. New front office leadership, new HC, new QB. It’s time 

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

It's the other players' fault Carr is missing wide open guys almost every week in the end zone.

To be fair you must account for other things here. First and foremost being that literally no QB in the league isn't guilty of this. None. Second, it's hard to go through your progressions when your line isn't doing the best job at blocking for you. Hindsight makes things seem much easier than it might actually be.

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

14 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Yea hunter said dabo has been present twice yesterday and last time was 2 years ago vs the jets. A lot has happened in 2 yrs for us and Clemson 

Dabo wants to coach all of his Clemson players. Maybe they'll play better.

[jpaulthe1st]

3 minutes ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

Dabo wants to coach all of his Clemson players. Maybe they'll play better.

Hard pass. DO NOT WANT 

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, jpaulthe1st said:

So we are back to giving Carr every excuse for the lack of success of the team. Same story year in and year out. Wash, rinse, repeat. 
 

He is not the reason we are losing but he certainly isn’t helping either. 
 

Time to turn the page and move on. New front office leadership, new HC, new QB. It’s time 

It's not an excuse for Carr so much as an indictment on the team we've fielded. 

We don't have a good offense at all. Playing backups/noobs at 8 spots on the offense due to cuts and injuries (9 if one concedes that Jacobs is not a feature back) doesn't help matters at all. The talent level is, frankly, inexcusable on offense. That's on the staff more than any individual player. I refuse to place blame on the person on the field who goes out and tries, even of they're sub par. The staff should be ashamed that we have utterly failed to field a legitimate 11 NFL starters. Even being generous to Moreau, Jacobs, and yes, Carr, that's still not an offense that inspires anything. 

I've said before that Carr, Renfrow, Miller, and Waller were the only guys who would start at their respective positions elsewhere, and Moreau maybe, but we hardly utilize 2 TE sets. The rest of the offense would literally be competing for spots, much less playing time. And that is the "team" this staff assembled after 4 seasons. 

 

[BackinBlack]

23 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Defense excuse = fatigue from being on the field too much

offense excuse = carr, oline, wrs, Olsen, rbs etc 

see the difference 

Our defense is full of guys we dam near pulled off the streets last second and rookies but no one is complaining you just get it done. Defense performs bad no excuses just hold each other accountable. Offense performs bad and it’s everyone’s fault and every excuse under the sun. 

haha I agree, I think a big part of it is also just because 1. Our D is playing well so no excuses needed, 2. no one really expected a top 10 D, so they are playing at a level we are all happy with. 
As you said, this D is a new unit, that will have their ups and downs. It is a good unit overall, just missing that 1 difference maker. Yannick and Max have been great, but its not translating into turnovers. We are getting close though. We actually having building blocks for a very good D, if we can get a solid DT and some LBers we may in business. 
To the bold, its kind of word play here. I can say its no excuses im just holding everyone accountable on the O too. 

But also, you typing out, guys we pulled off the streets last second or rookies, could also be taken as you giving an excuse haha. 

4 of our losses, Giants, Bears, Cinci and Washington our D played good enough to not only win, but win convincingly. Our O let them down.