Deebo Samuel Requests Trade

[TecmoSuperJoe]

50 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I could absolutely see the Texans going 11-6 with Jimmy Gs beautiful face and Jack Easterby's evil grin, almost like and angel and devil sitting on each shoulder.

It's at that time I will quit football altogether. I'll move into a log cabin out in Montana and never speak of this period of my life again.

Whether you get the elite winner or not, at the very least you wouldn't get the malcontent elite whiner regardless how it all went down. Or the passive aggressive cold war. Or potential criminal charges. Great to know. 

Might as well stick with Davis Mills though anyway. 

[Matts4313]

32 minutes ago, Manny/Patrick said:

So should I hold off on buying the jersey? @Forge i trust you

Buying a jersey before the player is at/near retirement is always dicey. 

[NVRamsFan]

This guy reliable or in the know?

Edited April 21, 2022 by NVRamsFan

[Forge]

9 minutes ago, NVRamsFan said:

This guy reliable or in the know?

Tony Pauline has been an "insider" in the NFL (and draft) forever, but I don't ever really remember him being a reliable guy or "breaking" real information. He has some entertaining content that can be worth a read, but its always felt more like "thats interesting" type content as opposed to "omg, are you serious?" content. 

[Dr A W Niloc]

2 hours ago, ET80 said:

They're rebuilding from the ground up, Deebo/Jimmy G doesn't accomplish that.

     No two players will.

[ET80]

7 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

     No two players will.

So why burn young cheap assets in draft picks for two expensive assets - if the win total isn't going up?

Jimmy G and Deebo are good for 1-2 extra wins (if that even) at $45mm extra cap space burned, give or take. In what plane of existence does that sound like a good option?

It's an optimal solution for San Francisco, sure. But there's literally no tangible upside for Houston in terms of wins short and long term.

[BayRaider]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Buying a jersey before the player is at/near retirement is always dicey. 

So is buying a rookie who hasn’t proven anything. 

Always huge risks in buying current players. 

[FrantikRam]

4 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Could we not accomplish something similar if we were to draft someone like Pickens, Dotson, C. Watson, etc. at #32 or #34 plus add another starter? 

I just feel like we already have Deebo Lite in ARSB in terms of what we do/can do with him and I believe we need more of a big body, jump ball/rz target guy to round out our WR corp. However, it is foolish to turn away adding talent to your roster at a reasonable cost. So I dunno.

 

 

I know it's just been one amazing year, but as a fan of a rival team, Deebo is wholely unique IMO. If I was Detroit I'd give pick 32 and then some without a second thought.

[Dr A W Niloc]

17 minutes ago, ET80 said:

So why burn young cheap assets in draft picks for two expensive assets - if the win total isn't going up?

      Fair question.

      A rebuild often involves getting rid of existing veteran assets.  (Mission accomplished!) 

     It does not, however, involve eschewing new proven talent.  If so, the team would be limited to the draft [and journeymen placeholders], a process which would require at least of decade of perfect draft choices [and infinitely better coaching than we've seen so far], by which time the original draftees may be gone.  (This might explain why Houston is the Erwin Rommel of tankers.)

     Turning one pick into two starters, one of them elite, is a force multiplier.  The very last thing that such a rookie based team needs to worry about going forward is attracting so many known talents that it will have cap issues.

      Of course, none of this will pertain until the Texans have competent management.

[Forge]

33 minutes ago, ET80 said:

So why burn young cheap assets in draft picks for two expensive assets - if the win total isn't going up?

 

Because this is what you get to see after every....single....game

[FrantikRam]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

Fair - but it's year one of a total rebuild. Last year didn't even qualify with all of the drama surrounding Deshaun Watson as well as the personnel decisions made by Bill O'Brien. Last year was a "to save this village we gotta burn it to the ground" year for the Texans.

Cleaning up the Texans cap space was job one, job two was replenishing the lost picks/players from the Laremy Tunsil trade - that wasn't happening in a year, that's a multi year rebuild even for the most adept GM/HC in football.

It could all come crashing down in a hilarious fashion (as most Texans endeavors do) but I have a sneaking suspicion that Nick Caserio is actually pretty smart. We'll see if that can shine through the stupidity of Cal McNair and Jack Easterby, but if McDermott/Beane can shine through the Pegulas and if Zac Taylor can shine through Mike Brown - anything is really possible.

This is assuming the Texans are trying to compete this season - bluntly stated, they're not. They are truly in a rebuild process, they're looking to identify young talent to build a foundation on. Any QB is going to be a bridge QB (unless Davis Mills has a breakout 2nd year - highly unlikely, but possible). 

The "average QB to star WR" in the Kubiak days didn't get this team that far, mostly due to a lack of defense (JJ Watt years notwithstanding). Why run that back when the end results were less than the Bill O'Brien era, despite better assets pretty much across the board for Kubiak?

You use sanity as your logic - A symptom of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. Texans already did Garropolo to Deebo, but it was called Schaub to AJ (with Kyle Shanahan as the OC, no less). Why go down that well again? Wouldn't that be the actual insane step?

Texans are a top 10 franchise in terms of value. Lotta oil and gas money pumped into NRG, and a Sauce Gardner jersey would sell just fine. In fact, I'd argue that giving up one of the precious Deshaun Watson picks for a guy who needs a monster contract would probably have the opposite effect - the fanbase is hunkered down for a rebuild, going any other direction looking for a quick solution will probably be met with a "what the hell are they trying to do here?" response.

Anyone with a slight viewpoint into this organization know they are not a WR and Garropolo away from making a playoff run. There is an entire defense ranked 30th to account for, spending assets to bring in a QB abd WR means assets won't be used for a defense that needs it.

(Now, if Nick Bosa was in this deal, we'd be in business - but the asking price would be incredibly high).

I understand that, but this doesn't serve the long term aim of the Texans. They're rebuilding from the ground up, Deebo/Jimmy G doesn't accomplish that. 

 

 

I'd argue that rebuilding from the ground up is as risky though.

Jets, Giants, Jaguars, Browns for 20 years, Lions - all went through or are going through what feels like perpetual rebuilds and none but the Browns even have light at the end of the tunnel right now.

With both options having risk, if I were an owner, I'd go with the option that involves a super star.

I don't think I'd want Jimmy G here though - just Deebo. Paired with Cooks, that makes your offense actually dangerous and Mills showed some flashes last year.

After trading for Deebo, use every other pick to supplement the defense and OL. Next year go HAM in FA and if Mills ain't it, draft a QB and fill out the rest of their roster.

Texans, with Deebo, start contending for the playoffs in 2023 if they hit on a rookie QB, who would be coming in with Deebo, Cooks, solid role players and a solid OL after this year's draft and next year's FAs and other picks - and probably get themselves at least an average defense too.

 

Ive seen the Rams pull off two turnarounds in my lifetime that were more unlikely than this two year plan for Houston would be. 

[squire12]

23 minutes ago, Forge said:

Because this is what you get to see after every....single....game

just think of the talent that man can get to the stadium!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by squire12

[N4L]

5 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

To me your season either goes as follows: Lance is really good, and you're contenders for awhile and next season isn't very important. Alternatively, Lance isn't very good and you're wondering if you need to be back in the QB market for the 2023 draft, which makes next season not very important.

This is crazy talk. Lance will get more than one season before the niners even consider replacing him. He is 21 years old and is younger than basically every other QB in this year's draft. 

It is funny to me that this comes from a guy with a Jordan Love avi

Spoiler alert: Trey Lance is going to be really freaking good

[ET80]

56 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

     It does not, however, involve eschewing new proven talent.  If so, the team would be limited to the draft [and journeymen placeholders], a process which would require at least of decade of perfect draft choices [and infinitely better coaching than we've seen so far], by which time the original draftees may be gone.  (This might explain why Houston is the Erwin Rommel of tankers.)

One year of elite production is now suddenly "proven" talent?

Deebo Samuel isn't Tyreek Hill or Davante Adams, guys with a long resume of proven production - heck, I'd argue that this time last season, people figured he was close to becoming WR #2 behind Brandon Aiyuk - so assuming he's proven based on a single season is really putting the cart before the horse (especially when you take into consideration that any sort of deal is going to come with a contract that puts him in the Adams/Hill stratosphere).

As far as perfect draft picks over decades - how many years did Cincinnati go from picking Joe Burrow at 1.1 and Jamar Chase at 1.4 to a Super Bowl? Oh, that's right - this time last year, Cincy had the #4 pick in the draft, and the guy at 1.1 was rehabbing a torn ACL.

Sure, there is no Burrow or Chase in this draft... but next draft, or the draft after that? And, the Texans are flush with cap and picks, so why does this have to be decades of perfect drafting? The Bengals - a historically bad franchise, one that hadn't won a playoff game since before the 1990s - just turned their fortunes around with two PICKS, not even two PERFECT drafts. (And please do tell how competent Mike Brown and Zac Taylor are/were - I need a good laugh).

Theoretically, your premise makes very little sense, and it's not really backed up by anything even resembling actual evidence.

56 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

Turning one pick into two starters, one of them elite, is a force multiplier. 

Assuming that Samuel is elite outside of that Kyle Shanahan offense, after his first great season. We've seen this before, too many times to count - guy shows flashes, chases money and then is never heard from again. Who is to say that's not Samuel's future?

[Forge]

Notice that @ET80 won't respond to my post about what he'd get every game with Jimmy G. 

He knows that if he looks at it, he'll fall into those eyes and be unable to resist. He'll have no choice but to say yes to a trading for him.