2022 Around league

[AZBearsFan]

9 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

He has made a lot of tackles, but hasn’t had a ton of impact plays.  

I don’t think that’s true at all, though it really depends on what you consider to be an impact play. Over the past 2 years:

Smith: 302 total tackles, 7 sacks, 3 INT (1 returned for TD), 1 FF, 30 TFL, 10 QB hits

Leonard: 256 total tackles (3 missed games), 3 sacks, 4 INT, 11 FF, 11 TFL, 6 QB hits

Leonard’s FF numbers are absurd, but Smith is essentially on par or superior in all other impact play categories. Smith’s 12 TFL led all ILB in 2021, and his 18 TFL in 2020 was 2nd in the NFL regardless of position. Roquan’s 30 TFL the past 2 years is the same number Leonard has in his 4-year career. I won’t argue that TFL are as impactful as FF because of the field position aspect in the event that the FF becomes a takeaway, but more often than not TFL serve to end drives and at bare minimum put the offense in a more precarious position, which to me is absolutely an impact play. Sacks are unquestionably an impact play, and Roquan is the more proficient player there. Differently impactful than Leonard, but impactful nonetheless.

I think from a perception standpoint it may seem like Smith not making as many impact plays because the failures of others around him on subsequent plays have ultimately undermined their overall impact on the outcome of a game or a particular drive. Really, it’s no different in that regard than the way Robert Quinn’s 18.5 sacks last year are largely overlooked or discounted league wide (my sons are pissed about his Madden rating lol). 

I agree with you in that if I were building a team I wouldn’t prioritize an ILB. But, when building out this particular defensive scheme I would absolutely prioritize an impact WLB, which is where we’re putting Smith now. This defense is at its best with a Brooks, Briggs or Leonard at WLB, and everything about Smith’s skill set and what he’s shown to date suggests he can be that guy for us. That’s not to say Smith is going to be a HOF, but he should be a dude in that role. 

[dll2000]

32 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t think that’s true at all, though it really depends on what you consider to be an impact play. Over the past 2 years:

Smith: 302 total tackles, 7 sacks, 3 INT (1 returned for TD), 1 FF, 30 TFL, 10 QB hits

Leonard: 256 total tackles (3 missed games), 3 sacks, 4 INT, 11 FF, 11 TFL, 6 QB hits

Leonard’s FF numbers are absurd, but Smith is essentially on par or superior in all other impact play categories. Smith’s 12 TFL led all ILB in 2021, and his 18 TFL in 2020 was 2nd in the NFL regardless of position. Roquan’s 30 TFL the past 2 years is the same number Leonard has in his 4-year career. I won’t argue that TFL are as impactful as FF because of the field position aspect in the event that the FF becomes a takeaway, but more often than not TFL serve to end drives and at bare minimum put the offense in a more precarious position, which to me is absolutely an impact play. Sacks are unquestionably an impact play, and Roquan is the more proficient player there. Differently impactful than Leonard, but impactful nonetheless.

I think from a perception standpoint it may seem like Smith not making as many impact plays because the failures of others around him on subsequent plays have ultimately undermined their overall impact on the outcome of a game or a particular drive. Really, it’s no different in that regard than the way Robert Quinn’s 18.5 sacks last year are largely overlooked or discounted league wide (my sons are pissed about his Madden rating lol). 

I agree with you in that if I were building a team I wouldn’t prioritize an ILB. But, when building out this particular defensive scheme I would absolutely prioritize an impact WLB, which is where we’re putting Smith now. This defense is at its best with a Brooks, Briggs or Leonard at WLB, and everything about Smith’s skill set and what he’s shown to date suggests he can be that guy for us. That’s not to say Smith is going to be a HOF, but he should be a dude in that role. 

Have to run to a closing so I will make this short.   You make good points, he is a good player.  But how much to pay him is always a question.   

If price were not an obstacle we would all chose to fly first class and drive Ferrari's instead of fly coach and drive Hondas.

Rams would pay him, would have done so already.  But they aren't operating on same budget as Poles.   They pay more cash up front and then spread it, and have a much bigger effective cap as a result.

[abstract_thought]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t think that’s true at all, though it really depends on what you consider to be an impact play. Over the past 2 years:

They entered the league in the exact same year. They've both started from day 1. Why are we doing this? Just compare them over their careers.

Smith: 524 tackles, 14 sacks, 17 PD, 5 INT, 1 FF, 43 TFL, 32 pressures, 17 QB hits
Leonard: 538 tackles, 15 sacks, 30 PD, 11 INT, 17 FF, 30 TFL, 33 pressures, 20 QB hits

Smith is a good player, but he is not at Leonard's level. But Smith is a few years younger and has the potential to get there.

[AZBearsFan]

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

They entered the league in the exact same year. They've both started from day 1. Why are we doing this?

Because the player that each has been over the past 2 years is a more accurate reflection of the players they are at the present time. Leonard is a first team all pro. Smith is a second team all pro. Both are studs. 

[dll2000]

Dude

 

[DABEARSLCF04]

Really wish Zimmer did punch Kirk. Kirk just has such a punchable face.

[JAF-N72EX]

You can't really compare the splash plays of a 3-4 ILB to that of a WLB in the 4-3. The latter gets far more opportunities to make plays.

Roquan is great but Leonard is a beast.  That said, Roquan will now have the same opportunity to prove he's as good as Leonard is.

[beardown3231]

17 hours ago, DABEARSLCF04 said:

Really wish Zimmer did punch Kirk. Kirk just has such a punchable face.

Cousins really seems to have a big ego. He thinks because of his contract he's a great QB. I guess all QB's have an ego to a degree or they wouldn't be where they are, but of all players, that dweeb? Not a good look

Edited July 30, 2022 by beardown3231

[Nads786]

19 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Dude

 

This was a great find. I always wondered what the heck this was about. Cousins is a moron.

[dll2000]

10 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

This was a great find. I always wondered what the heck this was about. Cousins is a moron.

That is Zimmer’s take remember.  We don’t know full extent of their relationship and what was said.

From a player perspective ‘be better’ is not helpful.  

To me that kind of thing has always been sign of a bad coach.  

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

That is Zimmer’s take remember.  We don’t know full extent of their relationship and what was said.

From a player perspective ‘be better’ is not helpful.  

To me that kind of thing has always been sign of a bad coach.  

Agreed, but Cousins can be a moron and Zimmer a bad coach at the same time too. They’re definitely not mutually exclusive.

If reports are right that Poles chose the Bears job over the Vikings job you’d have to think the QB situations were the key driver in that. MIN’s overall roster is far closer to winning than ours, and whether he loves Fields’ potential or not he’s still a relative unknown as an NFL QB. That says a lot about Cousins to me. 

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said:

Agreed, but Cousins can be a moron and Zimmer a bad coach at the same time too. They’re definitely not mutually exclusive.

If reports are right that Poles chose the Bears job over the Vikings job you’d have to think the QB situations were the key driver in that. MIN’s overall roster is far closer to winning than ours, and whether he loves Fields’ potential or not he’s still a relative unknown as an NFL QB. That says a lot about Cousins to me. 

Cousins is not elite by any means and has done badly in prime time games.  I can see why he wouldn’t be a fan favorite based on that, but I don’t get the hate for him personally.  Especially for non MN fans. 

He definitely hasn’t been an idiot in how he has handled his career and contracts. 

He is a slightly above average NFL QB with relative poor athletic ability that has earned a crap ton of money in this league.  

He has kept his starting job for two franchises and hasn’t given it to back to anyone after winning it despite other draft picks coming in.  And it has been a lot of years now.  This after starting out in league as a 4th round pick.

I find all that to be impressive.  I don’t think he is an idiot.  

 

[Ty21]

8 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Cousins really seems to have a big ego. He thinks because of his contract he's a great QB. I guess all QB's have an ego to a degree or they wouldn't be where they are, but of all players, that dweeb? Not a good look

Dweeb cause he likes Creed? Or dweeb cause he’s a dweeb?

[beardown3231]

4 hours ago, Ty21 said:

Dweeb cause he likes Creed? Or dweeb cause he’s a dweeb?

Yes

[JAF-N72EX]

18 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Cousins really seems to have a big ego. He thinks because of his contract he's a great QB. I guess all QB's have an ego to a degree or they wouldn't be where they are, but of all players, that dweeb? Not a good look

It turns out the report was bogus. But I agree. Cousins def thinks he's better than he actually is. He acted this way in WAS when he wanted to get paid, but Dan Snyder kept saying "you need to prove your a franchise QB if you want more money" and Snyder kept throwing the FA tag on him to give him a chance to prove it and SNyder still didn't think he enough. Eventually Cousins proved Snyder's fears to be true because Cousins still hasn't become a franchise QB and nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.

I've always loved how Snyder handled that situation and I wish more GMs did the same. Don't pay QBs top money after they only have 1 good season followed by 2 bad/mediocre ones. Unless a QB is breaking records, like Mahomes, then Make them prove themselves first before paying them. That's what get teams into trouble in the long run.

Cousins is the type of QB who puts you in QB purgatory. Just good enough to make you question whether or not you can find something better. But not good enough to put your team over the top.

Edited July 31, 2022 by JAF-N72EX