Official 2023 QB Thread

[Rich7sena]

Something I have seen about Levis that doesn't seem to be true is that he's mobile. He's not mobile, right? It seems to me that makes him an extremely risky prospect.

[Sllim Pickens]

3 hours ago, sammymvpknight said:

Watching Young move in the pocket is a thing of beauty. Super elite pocket presence…and that’s with a surprisingly iffy Alabama OL this year. I just haven’t seen that Stroud. Not to say it’s not there but it’s an incomplete grade…and honestly, pocket presence is INCREDIBLY underrated as a QB trait. It’s something you can’t learn. It’s why pilot take a spatial orientation test before they get accepted into their program…you ever have it or you don’t. 

That is literally Stroud's strength. His pressure to sack rate is less than half of what Justin Fields was at 11.3%.  His average time to throw is a half second quicker than Fields.  Using Fields as a comp because he is considered more elusive and athletic in the same system as Stroud.  Stroud's ability to read defenses, get the ball out quick, make the right decision and deliver an accurate ball is huge.  He may not dance around to avoid sacks but he knows where pressure is coming from and makes the right decision against it and does not take sacks.  

[Ozzy]

7 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

That is literally Stroud's strength. His pressure to sack rate is less than half of what Justin Fields was at 11.3%.  His average time to throw is a half second quicker than Fields.  Using Fields as a comp because he is considered more elusive and athletic in the same system as Stroud.  Stroud's ability to read defenses, get the ball out quick, make the right decision and deliver an accurate ball is huge.  He may not dance around to avoid sacks but he knows where pressure is coming from and makes the right decision against it and does not take sacks.  

True but even with the major injuries Ohio State has had, their skill position guys are so much better than Bama this season, and the OL is way better and the running backs are way better as well.  Sure at times Gibbs has been good but other times he totally disappears.  Stover is just as good as Latu arguably but that is a close call.

 

Brooks has looked ok for Bama but if Ohio State had all healthy WRs, the would be what 4th maybe even 5th on their depth chart?  Harrison Jr is better than him, so is Egbuka and Fleming possibly and obviously Smith-Njigba but he has been hurt.

 

And that OL for Ohio State has two possibly 1st round picks next year, no way Bama has any 1st rounders on that OL this year.  

 

So there is that, where Stroud is supported by talent around him where Bryce Young looks potentially a lot worse than he is because of all the sub par play around him on the OL and WR core not to mention the penalties by the offense which are usually not Bryce Young related or the crazy disappointing defense.  

 

If you switch the two players and put CJ Stroud on Bama and Bryce Young on Ohio State, granted Stroud has a better deep ball but I think Stroud would struggle a lot more than Young has this year with those receivers and that OL on Bama.

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

If you switch the two players and put CJ Stroud on Bama and Bryce Young on Ohio State, granted Stroud has a better deep ball but I think Stroud would struggle a lot more than Young has this year with those receivers and that OL on Bama.

I didn't realize we're already at the point of the draft process where we complain about the supporting cast for Alabama.

[Ozzy]

33 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I didn't realize we're already at the point of the draft process where we complain about the supporting cast for Alabama.

You want to pretend that WR core is top of the line or that OL has performed well for Alabama go ahead and do that.  Also pretend that Ohio State has not been very solid even with the injuries and has a way superior offensive line in terms of play and talent.

[CWood21]

42 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You want to pretend that WR core is top of the line or that OL has performed well for Alabama go ahead and do that.  Also pretend that Ohio State has not been very solid even with the injuries and has a way superior offensive line in terms of play and talent.

Are you really going to pretend like Alabama isn't 8-2 right now with their losses being against the current 5th and 6th ranked teams by a COMBINED four points?  Get out of here if you're complaining about supporting casts.

[Ragnarok]

If Bryce wasn't insanely tiny, I think he is no doubt #1 overall.  But there's never been a QB that short and slight succeed.  Brees and Russell are the only two QBs that short to really make it and both are built thicker than Bryce by a good 20 pounds.

Me saying this of course means he will be a stud, but no matter how well he can process, at some point, you need the physical ability.

[jrry32]

47 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

If Bryce wasn't insanely tiny, I think he is no doubt #1 overall.  But there's never been a QB that short and slight succeed.  Brees and Russell are the only two QBs that short to really make it and both are built thicker than Bryce by a good 20 pounds.

Me saying this of course means he will be a stud, but no matter how well he can process, at some point, you need the physical ability.

Well, we know he's not lacking arm talent or mobility, so the only thing I can assume you mean by "physical ability" is height and weight. And I think it's absurd, particularly in today's NFL, for people to really be pushing this narrative. You're honestly telling me that you think Russ would have busted if he was 5'11" 190 instead of 5'11" 205?

[Ragnarok]

25 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Well, we know he's not lacking arm talent or mobility, so the only thing I can assume you mean by "physical ability" is height and weight. And I think it's absurd, particularly in today's NFL, for people to really be pushing this narrative. You're honestly telling me that you think Russ would have busted if he was 5'11" 190 instead of 5'11" 205?

I think it would have been more likely for him to get injured.  20 extra pounds of muscle does insulate against some of the hits.  Also, his ability to avoid getting hit/sliding helped.

And it may be absurd, im fully open to the possibility that it doesn't matter near as much as I think anymore.

Part of it comes from a interview with Tua earlier this year where he said he struggled seeing guys at times.

[jrry32]

7 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

I think it would have been more likely for him to get injured.  20 extra pounds of muscle does insulate against some of the hits.  Also, his ability to avoid getting hit/sliding helped.

And it may be absurd, im fully open to the possibility that it doesn't matter near as much as I think anymore.

Part of it comes from a interview with Tua earlier this year where he said he struggled seeing guys at times.

I don't know that it would have made much difference in terms of durability. That largely feels genetic. Yeah, I can understand durability concerns about a 5'9" 160 pound guy. I can even understand durability concerns about a 5'9" 185 pound HB with a violent running style or a 5'10" 180 pound safety who throws his body around recklessly. But we're talking about QBs, not guys like that.

I look around at the NFL, and I see plenty of skinny QBs who manage to be very durable. I also see big QBs who aren't very durable (ex. Carson Wentz). Hell, 5'9" 175 pound Doug Flutie had a long pro football career and didn't have major injury issues.

[Ragnarok]

2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I don't know that it would have made much difference in terms of durability. That largely feels genetic. Yeah, I can understand durability concerns about a 5'9" 160 pound guy. I can even understand durability concerns about a 5'9" 185 pound HB with a violent running style or a 5'10" 180 pound safety who throws his body around recklessly. But we're talking about QBs, not guys like that.

I look around at the NFL, and I see plenty of skinny QBs who manage to be very durable. I also see big QBs who aren't very durable (ex. Carson Wentz). Hell, 5'9" 175 pound Doug Flutie had a long pro football career and didn't have major injury issues.

So, I get the Wentz and Flutie points, but generally speaking, more size helps in more durability.  There are guys who are just genetically more or less durable, but size does matter.

It comes down to whether Bryce is the rare outlier who can make it at that size.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

I think it would have been more likely for him to get injured.  20 extra pounds of muscle does insulate against some of the hits.  Also, his ability to avoid getting hit/sliding helped.

And it may be absurd, im fully open to the possibility that it doesn't matter near as much as I think anymore.

Part of it comes from a interview with Tua earlier this year where he said he struggled seeing guys at times.

I used to feel this way until somewhat recently. More size, more bulk = take bigger hits, it just makes sense when you think about it. It just changes when you look at the actual players in the NFL. 

Look at Eli, who by all accounts is an NFL iron man. Eli has no muscle on him, lol. Legit, none. Certainly less than Young, albeit Eli’s chubbier (not as skinny). He’s just  taller, so he’s heavier, but muscle/body type wise? Guy had no business being as durable as he was. Can say the same about Stafford (who actually was pretty healthy for as long as he’s played). Or Ryan. 

Look at Lamar, more so as a rookie. Again, yeah he meets that weight threshold and has an athletic build - but the dude was skinny. Shrink him 2-3 inches and I’d be surprised if he breaks 205 at absolute most. He’s been pretty healthy, and that’s a guy who’s taking more contact than most QBs.

If you dismiss those guys because they’re technically heavier (but have similar/worse builds) then extend it to other positions, you see it even more. AJ Green, one of the skinniest players I think you’ll find, has stayed really healthy until late into his career. Healthier overall than his draft mate Julio, who has 30~ pounds or so on him. Look at Gronk, who’s about as big as any TE, and all the injury issues he’s dealt with. Or all the injuries a guy like Brandon Jacobs has dealt with. Or Jimmy (as a mobile, medium QB), or Big Ben (who as tough as he was, got nicked up a lot), or Wentz. 

The more I’ve looked at it, the more it is sort of dumb luck. Why is Derrick Henry eating 400 carries but Brandon Jacobs got worn down? Why is Lamar Jackson able to stay healthier than Michael Vick? How did Brett Favre survive as the NFL’s greatest iron man but monsters like Allen and Herbert are already dealing with injuries in a much softer league? 

It kind of goes against what I initially think and what logically makes sense, but I don’t think there’s any noticeable trend in heavier = less injury prone. 

[Ozzy]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Are you really going to pretend like Alabama isn't 8-2 right now with their losses being against the current 5th and 6th ranked teams by a COMBINED four points?  Get out of here if you're complaining about supporting casts.

Alabama has had 14 1st or 2nd round picks at the WR/OL/RB positions in the past 4 years.  This up coming year they will have zero possibly, yeah that is not a talent deficiency?

 

It would be the first time they have not had a offensive player WR/OL or RB picked in the 1st or 2nd round since 2012 potentially.  Granted Gibbs could be that player to keep it going but could easily fall as well or return to school.

 

You do recall Tua played with 4 1st round picks at WR right?  You do not watch Bama much if you think that supporting cast is performing well at all offensively.  Which does make Bryce Young look possibly worse than he is but he still performs pretty damn well considering.  

[jebrick]

10 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

If Bryce wasn't insanely tiny, I think he is no doubt #1 overall.  But there's never been a QB that short and slight succeed.  Brees and Russell are the only two QBs that short to really make it and both are built thicker than Bryce by a good 20 pounds.

Me saying this of course means he will be a stud, but no matter how well he can process, at some point, you need the physical ability.

Brees went in the 2nd round and Wilson in the 3rd round.  Has Murray changed that thinking?  Perhaps.  Young is going in either the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft.

[hburn]

Will Levis is jay cutler 2.0, literally the perfect qb physically, will make alot of great throws but no pocket awareness and makes just some terrible throws