wackywabbit Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 11:15 AM, Art_Vandalay said: I agree that we'll be seeing this more and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens to Lamar. I sure as hell wouldn't pay him what he wants. Lamar: "Deshaun and Kyler got the bag. It's my turn" Ravens: "Yeah well, the Browns and Cardinals suck and you're hurt all the time. Bye." Teams with QBs should still draft a QB on the 2nd day. Being forced to give monster contracts to guys like Deshaun, Kyler, and Dak is like being sentenced to mediocrity purgatory. I agree about keeping drafting QBs, but a sentence for mediocre purgatory isn't a thing. Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Watson, Russell Wilson, Dak, Hurts... literally most of the best QBs in the league were drafted by teams that were likely to meet your definition of being in mediocre purgatory. So how is it a sentence to anything? Stop fetishizing being an sorry losing team with lots of draft capital and cap space. No one is going to gift you a super bowl for being pathetic (which is your suggestion for avoiding purgatory). That's the whole point of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFan13 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 As a Falcon fan im probably the best to answer this since it would be us dealing with the problem if it were to happen. Where as i like Lamar as a player and think on the right team he can be very good and very effective. My main issue is if we did give up everything you said to get him is that our team wouldn't be anywhere near as talented as a team like the ravens to put a competitive team around him to succeed. A good QB can help for sure but just like with Ryan unless you build a good enough team around him to win the SB then it's all for nothing. Also lamar relies a ton on his legs and that will go way sooner than a arm will and he will lose alot of his effectiveness by the time we build a good enough team to get to the SB. If it were just the 50 million or just the picks and not both i probably would want to pull the trigger but both is a tough pill to swallow when you think lamar will be worse without a good team around him and won't have enough to succeed. Also if you think the rest of the NFC south is going to stay this bad for more than a year or 2 you are sorely mistaken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFan13 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 3 hours ago, showtime said: Can someone give me an example of a trade or a sign and trade scenario? On ESPN yesterday, I heard if they sign him to a certain franchise tag, a team can offer him a contract. If the Ravens don't match, Jackson can go to that team for two first round draft picks. Some people on TV were saying that might be too expensive of a price (two first rounders and a huge contract), but I disagree. For Lamar Jackson, I would definitely give up two first rounders. If this is all it took and not all those extra picks then i probably make the trade and sign him to a contract i think. The trick here for me would be to trade our 8th pick for a pick in the mid 20's plus a 1st next year or a bunch of extra picks in the 2nd to 3rd rounds and then trade the late 1st + the 1st next year for Lamar sorta like we did when we trade for Jon Abraham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Is nobody else concerned that he’s regressed since his second year and missed so much time for injuries the past two years? I get it, if he’s healthy he’s still a unique talent, but if he’s not an elite athlete then he’s not really that special. He’s a mediocre passer on platform from the pocket, so you need him at 100% athletically for him to be a viable franchise quarterback. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 hours ago, MWil23 said: Is nobody else concerned that he’s regressed since his second year and missed so much time for injuries the past two years? I get it, if he’s healthy he’s still a unique talent, but if he’s not an elite athlete then he’s not really that special. He’s a mediocre passer on platform from the pocket, so you need him at 100% athletically for him to be a viable franchise quarterback. Yes. Yes I am. Most Ravens fans have the idea in their head that we’re going to get 2019-2020 Lamar moving forward after the extension. I’m more inclined to believe we’ll be getting 2021-2022 Lamar. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy86 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Anyone saying you can't overpay for a QB if HD hits, woudk you really give up $20omn/yr and every draft pick for the next decade on a single player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, MWil23 said: Is nobody else concerned that he’s regressed since his second year and missed so much time for injuries the past two years? I get it, if he’s healthy he’s still a unique talent, but if he’s not an elite athlete then he’s not really that special. He’s a mediocre passer on platform from the pocket, so you need him at 100% athletically for him to be a viable franchise quarterback. I’m not super concerned. I’ve always believed it was Greg Roman’s offence getting stale and not Lamar magically getting worse at football. GR ran out his welcome with every team he’s ever been on by having an efficient offence one year that then falters and falls on its face in subsequent years Edited February 19, 2023 by ThatJaxxenGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 hour ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said: I’m not super concerned. I’ve always believed it was Greg Roman’s offence getting stale and not Lamar magically getting worse at football. GR ran out his welcome with every team he’s ever been on by having an efficient offence one year that then falters and falls on its face in subsequent years If you take away his MVP season he has 65 passing TDs and 32 interceptions for his career. I think the odds are, that his 2019 season was an outlier even though many fans look at that season as who he is. A lot of teams realized that it's better to let him get his yards on the ground (he'd get them anyway) and play a more normal defense against him rather than focusing on stopping him run and let free receivers go all over the field. He is still electric with his legs and it will still open up things in the passing game but there are a lot of aspects to his passing game that aren't on par with a better than average QB. He is instant offense but he isn't a consistent instant offense with variables. He never developed in that area how Josh Allen did (Josh Allen also has warts as a passer but he has improved greatly from early on). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: If you take away his MVP season he has 65 passing TDs and 32 interceptions for his career. I think the odds are, that his 2019 season was an outlier even though many fans look at that season as who he is. A lot of teams realized that it's better to let him get his yards on the ground (he'd get them anyway) and play a more normal defense against him rather than focusing on stopping him run and let free receivers go all over the field. He is still electric with his legs and it will still open up things in the passing game but there are a lot of aspects to his passing game that aren't on par with a better than average QB. He is instant offense but he isn't a consistent instant offense with variables. He never developed in that area how Josh Allen did (Josh Allen also has warts as a passer but he has improved greatly from early on). I don’t think it’s that simple. If you take away any young player’s best 16 games their stats will obviously look worse. Also, the timing of Josh Allen’s improvement in passing numbers coincides directly with him getting an elite receiver. Football player performance doesn’t exist in a vacuum of their own abilities. generally speaking, no QB in the NFL has done more with less help on offence than Lamar since entering the NFL. I’m more inclined to blame a regression on a lame duck play caller who has a trend of regression on every team he’s ever coached rather than assuming the QB just suddenly lost his ability. Edited February 19, 2023 by ThatJaxxenGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said: I don’t think it’s that simple. If you take away any young player’s best 16 games their stats will obviously look worse. Also, the timing of Josh Allen’s improvement in passing numbers coincides directly with him getting an elite receiver. Football player performance doesn’t exist in a vacuum of their own abilities. generally speaking, no QB in the NFL has done more with less help on offence than Lamar since entering the NFL. I’m more inclined to blame a regression on a lame duck play caller who has a trend of regression on every team he’s ever coached rather than assuming the QB just suddenly lost his ability. He didn't lose his ability, defenses adjusted to his strengths. If you take away Josh Allen's best year he has two more very similar. Pretty much the same with all of the decent young QBs. The Ravens' defense has been top 3 in points against in all but one of Lamar's seasons. Give that to any average or better QB and they are going to be a happy camper. They are going to win a lot and get a lot of credit for team success. There may be a dumb team out that thinks Lamar alone equals wins and gives a lot up for him but I would be surprised. If teams were dumb enough to do it for Watson then anything is possible. It just isn't logical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboRocket Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 2/14/2023 at 9:19 AM, BetterCallSaul said: Yeah he really is the ugliest dude in all of sports. Yeesh. Robbie Anderson out of the NFL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 The NFC South is wide open. However, I’d pick the Saints with Carr over Atlanta with Lamar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 hours ago, HoboRocket said: Robbie Anderson out of the NFL? Id french kiss Robbie Anderson before shaking hands with Lamar. Ick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y*so*blu Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Yes, it is very possible to overpay for a franchise QB. I think the Russell Wilson disaster settled that once and for all. But it's a win-now league, so you're always going to have teams that put the cart before the horse and hope a better quarterback will solve everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 You never over-pay for Ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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