ESPN lets go of substantial NFL coverage staff

[candyman93]

On 7/5/2023 at 4:58 PM, dll2000 said:

Top Gun, Spider-man, and Super Mario.

More recently every kid I know really liked Across Spider Verse (I have kids and I volunteer at youth group at church so I know a lot of other 12-16 year olds).  I know many kids who have gone to see it 2 or 3x.  People on my facebook feed say post to say they saw it and really liked it.   And those people rarely comment on movies

4 films I can say you’re spot on for- Top gun, both Spider-Man films, and Super Mario.

 

However, each film succeeded for different reasons. Across the spider verse and Super Mario knew their target audience and knew how to adapt to that audience.

 

Spiderman No Way Home did an amazing job “ending an era” and doing fan service. It gave loyal fans what they were waiting for and tied up loose ends. Yet it was nice enough to not shut the door completely to future content. It got people out of the COVID funk.

 

Top Gun is a swan song for cruise. Just an amazingly well done film from start to finish.

 

Great films still have a place in society.

Edited July 8, 2023 by candyman93

[Forge]

Just now, candyman93 said:

Top Gun is a swan song for cruise. Just an amazingly well done film from start to finish.

 

Not sure I'd call it a swan song for Cruise. I think that Dead Reckoning is going to crush it (both of them) . But Top Gun did have the over abundance of fan service and nostalgia going for it. 

[dll2000]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:36 PM, candyman93 said:

4 films I can say you’re spot on for- Top gun, both Spider-Man films, and Super Mario.

 

However, each film succeeded for different reasons. Across the spider verse and Super Mario knew their target audience and knew how to adapt to that audience.

 

Spiderman No Way Home did an amazing job “ending an era” and doing fan service. It gave loyal fans what they were waiting for and tied up loose ends. Yet it was nice enough to not shut the door completely to future content. It got people out of the COVID funk.

 

Top Gun is a swan song for cruise. Just an amazingly well done film from start to finish.

 

Great films still have a place in society.

Yes they do.

I would say there is an over reliance on old IPs.  I get it.   It would seem those are less risk averse since you are starting with a base of fans who will obsensibly buy tickets.  

While that is fine, you still have to tell a good story even standing on the shoulders of previous writers and world building or you get backlash.   It also seems while they sell an investor using an old IP and an existing fan base, a lot of times the writers have little to no respect for that IP or the fan base.   

Worse they are ideologically antagonistic to who makes up bulk of that older group and are seeking to change or educate them on their wrongness.  Or they just want to purposely insult them for reasons of their own.   I think that has been a big mistake.  You don't want to hate your customer or at least not let them know you hate them.  

You are right.  Spider-man across spider verse targeted teens very well.   A lot of teen angst, dealing with parents from their point of view, that kind of thing.  At same time, it had good family values.  So parents liked it too.   That is really smart writing for that target audience.   You also included original spider-man, but a bit older and past his prime, so you aren't insulting older fans that are not fans of character switches.  Put all that together and you have teens wanting to see it and parents willing to pay for it.

As an aside, I think introducing time travel and multi-verses in so many of these stories is dangerous.   I am not sure why that is such a trend of late.  It is almost impossible to write those stories without introducing significant plot holes. 

 

[Kiwibrown]

8 hours ago, dll2000 said:

 

As an aside, I think introducing time travel and multi-verses in so many of these stories is dangerous.   I am not sure why that is such a trend of late.  It is almost impossible to write those stories without introducing significant plot holes. 

 

It breaks my suspended disbelief. I feel like I need a history lesson which I don't want to understand what is happening. 

Captain American winter sllider was a great movie. Ita world building included a long lost friend in a cult and a corrupt government. All of these things are relatable. 

A multiverse no one can relate to. Though they nailed it in Spider man 3 or whatever it was and that was awesome.

The time travel bit in end game was meh.

[ET80]

On 7/5/2023 at 11:03 AM, dll2000 said:

It's kind of interesting to observe the Marvel movie industry. 

Post Endgame, the MCU (and DCEU, and Foxverse) has been almost exclusively reliant on cameos and Easter eggs to drive interest -  there is no investment in appealing storylines and actual character development; Why do you need a story and character development when you can skip that by putting Michael Keaton back in the Batsuit, or get Patrick Stewart in a wheelchair for a few scenes? 

Across the Spiderverse works so well because it has an enthralling story, filled with characters who have compelling backstories and arcs. Sure, there are Easter eggs and cameos that everyone immediately calls out - but you can skip those quick 10 seconds “blink and you miss” moments and still have a fantastic movie on your hands. Multiverse of Madness had to use their two big Easter eggs to push the plot forward… and The Flash was basically one big cameo moment supported by smaller, less relevant cameos. The stories themselves? Garbage for the most part. Take Stewart out of Multiverse of Madness and you have a bad movie. Take Keaton out of The Flash and you have an even worse movie. 

Comic book movies are sort of at a point where they need to rethink their approach and actually read the source material that made these stories interesting to begin with, IMO. DC actually seems to have an advantage here with the failures of The Flash. James Gunn has a reset button on his desk and he fully understands that Easter eggs and cameos don’t make a good movie - he’s got a ton of them in his GotG movies, but none of them real outshine the movies itself. On the other side, I feel like the MCU is caught up in what can be perceived as a death spiral - the Kang arc has moments, but it’s falling into that cameo/Easter egg trap (I’m FULLY expecting Chris Evans, Robert Downey Jr and Josh Brolin to reprise their role somewhere between The Marvels and Secret Wars, because they’re simply out of good story arcs to tell, given how they’re leading the story post-Infinity Saga). 

Deadpool 3 is the outlier here - it’s use of Easter eggs and cameos is fully tongue-in-cheek, very self aware of this foolishness (as the most recent photos have shown). 

Ok, rambling stream of thought is over. Back to football. Football good, football happy me.

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

Post Endgame, the MCU (and DCEU, and Foxverse) has been almost exclusively reliant on cameos and Easter eggs to drive interest -  there is no investment in appealing storylines and actual character development; Why do you need a story and character development when you can skip that by putting Michael Keaton back in the Batsuit, or get Patrick Stewart in a wheelchair for a few scenes? 

Across the Spiderverse works so well because it has an enthralling story, filled with characters who have compelling backstories and arcs. Sure, there are Easter eggs and cameos that everyone immediately calls out - but you can skip those quick 10 seconds “blink and you miss” moments and still have a fantastic movie on your hands. Multiverse of Madness had to use their two big Easter eggs to push the plot forward… and The Flash was basically one big cameo moment supported by smaller, less relevant cameos. The stories themselves? Garbage for the most part. Take Stewart out of Multiverse of Madness and you have a bad movie. Take Keaton out of The Flash and you have an even worse movie. 

Comic book movies are sort of at a point where they need to rethink their approach and actually read the source material that made these stories interesting to begin with, IMO. DC actually seems to have an advantage here with the failures of The Flash. James Gunn has a reset button on his desk and he fully understands that Easter eggs and cameos don’t make a good movie - he’s got a ton of them in his GotG movies, but none of them real outshine the movies itself. On the other side, I feel like the MCU is caught up in what can be perceived as a death spiral - the Kang arc has moments, but it’s falling into that cameo/Easter egg trap (I’m FULLY expecting Chris Evans, Robert Downey Jr and Josh Brolin to reprise their role somewhere between The Marvels and Secret Wars, because they’re simply out of good story arcs to tell, given how they’re leading the story post-Infinity Saga). 

Deadpool 3 is the outlier here - it’s use of Easter eggs and cameos is fully tongue-in-cheek, very self aware of this foolishness (as the most recent photos have shown). 

Ok, rambling stream of thought is over. Back to football. Football good, football happy me.

They have literal decades of good stories to pick from and adapt and beloved characters.  They chose to choose the less popular ones for phase 4 and 5.  

The re-introduced Captain Marvel (many iterations) and Ms. Marvel and many other new characters like a decade or two ago (I don't know exact timeline) in the comics.   When comic book stores still existed.   They were heavily marketed  and they were just not well received.   Sales plummeted.  

Why they would try to follow that same pattern I have no idea. 

Guardians of Galaxy and Dr. Strange are outliers in that they succeeded in spite of not being previously of low relevance or popularity in book form.  But that is due to charismatic lead actor(s) and good writing and directing.    The most recent Dr. Strange movie not being included in that.  

 

[DontTazeMeBro]

I feel bad for Suzy Kolber. But has anyone ever turned on a game for her? Or any sideline reporter ever? How many of these people actually moved the needle?

[Wyld Stallyns]

18 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

I feel bad for Suzy Kolber. But has anyone ever turned on a game for her? Or any sideline reporter ever? How many of these people actually moved the needle?

Joe Namath would disagree, and she had a website named after her for that incident 

[G]

On 7/10/2023 at 8:21 AM, dll2000 said:

As an aside, I think introducing time travel and multi-verses in so many of these stories is dangerous.   I am not sure why that is such a trend of late.  It is almost impossible to write those stories without introducing significant plot holes. 

 

Multi-verses were introduced to get rid of expensive established actors and go with cheaper less likable actors. lol  So if it doesn't 'work' they can bring back the 'big guns' to try and salvage what's left but...It won't work going forward, just finish off a story line. Treating 'fans' like doo doo isn't smart business and it's smarter to not cater to new trends (woke) thinking it will bring in more revenue because it doesn't. I think some companies are starting to understand this and the NFL knew to not bring Colin back because it would have made it a constant conversation. Your players will want to get paid so they will handle not getting what they want but if peoplke stopped going to games it becomes a BUD like conversation where you have to walk a fine line to not cater and not cross a line. Marshan Lynch had been sitting for years during the anthem and nobody said nothing but when someone tries to get off a horrible team (SF post Harbs) thinking they'll get PAID and makes a statement that upsets a big enough section of your audience...Well.....That's history just like Joe and Susie who could multi-verse into not being so drunk that night or saying that to her off camera/mic. lol DO OVER!

[adamq]

I have been done with ESPN ever since they cut the SVP radio show..they made some other cuts at that time and it has been all down hill since. ESPN under Skipper at least cared about journalism a little bit.. now it's not even a consideration 

[lavar703]

On 7/5/2023 at 11:13 AM, ramssuperbowl99 said:

One of the very few people who figured out how to be relatively informative while playing by the ESPN talking head, 30 second sound bite rules. I don't go out of my way to watch her or anything, but you can tell she makes an effort to provide substance instead of talking about how bad players want to win.

JJ Reddick's another one who tries. Kills me because he's a first ballot hall of fame hatable athlete.

I'm around the same age as Reddick and we're both from VA (year older than me) and you really don't realize how much better NBA level talent is until you see it. He absolutely smoked my high school. Just crazy lol

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, lavar703 said:

I'm around the same age as Reddick and we're both from VA (year older than me) and you really don't realize how much better NBA level talent is until you see it. He absolutely smoked my high school. Just crazy lol

100%, I get more enjoyment out of watching those types of guys wreck practices and have fun. If Steph Curry sold tickets to his shoot around, I'd go and get way more out of it than watching him make some big game 3. Or like when Jimmy Butler decided that day he was going to own TWolves practice, that's the pinnacle.

[dll2000]

14 hours ago, G said:

Multi-verses were introduced to get rid of expensive established actors and go with cheaper less likable actors. lol  So if it doesn't 'work' they can bring back the 'big guns' to try and salvage what's left but...It won't work going forward, just finish off a story line. Treating 'fans' like doo doo isn't smart business and it's smarter to not cater to new trends (woke) thinking it will bring in more revenue because it doesn't. I think some companies are starting to understand this and the NFL knew to not bring Colin back because it would have made it a constant conversation. Your players will want to get paid so they will handle not getting what they want but if peoplke stopped going to games it becomes a BUD like conversation where you have to walk a fine line to not cater and not cross a line. Marshan Lynch had been sitting for years during the anthem and nobody said nothing but when someone tries to get off a horrible team (SF post Harbs) thinking they'll get PAID and makes a statement that upsets a big enough section of your audience...Well.....That's history just like Joe and Susie who could multi-verse into not being so drunk that night or saying that to her off camera/mic. lol DO OVER!

Maybe that is a studio benefit, but the basis for the stories were written well before movies.  

[ET80]

21 hours ago, G said:

Multi-verses were introduced to get rid of expensive established actors and go with cheaper less likable actors.

…this is 100% incorrect.

Marvel introduced the Multiverse as a plot device within its comic books in 1971. This pre-dates the first Marvel movie (Blade, 1998) by nearly 30 years. DC introduced the Multiverse as a plot device in 1953. This pre-dates the first DC movie (Superman, 1978) by nearly 25 years. The idea of a Multiverse with infinite versions of the superheroes we know has been fully fleshed out, destroyed and redone more than once - even before people started making these movies.

It’s fun in theory to suggest what you’re suggesting, but what movie actually demonstrates this? What superhero was replaced in recent memory? Going from Terrance Howard to Don Cheadle (James Rhodes/War Machine) wasn’t a multiverse-based move. The various iterations of Batman and Superman aren’t multiverse-driven. Heck, James McAvoy/Patrick Stewart (Professor X) and Michael Fassbender/Ian McKellum (Magneto) were eventually retconned into younger/older versions of one another, so even that’s not a multiverse-driven recasting. 

[G]

7 hours ago, ET80 said:

…this is 100% incorrect.

Marvel introduced the Multiverse as a plot device within its comic books in 1971. This pre-dates the first Marvel movie (Blade, 1998) by nearly 30 years. DC introduced the Multiverse as a plot device in 1953. This pre-dates the first DC movie (Superman, 1978) by nearly 25 years. The idea of a Multiverse with infinite versions of the superheroes we know has been fully fleshed out, destroyed and redone more than once - even before people started making these movies.

It’s fun in theory to suggest what you’re suggesting, but what movie actually demonstrates this? What superhero was replaced in recent memory? Going from Terrance Howard to Don Cheadle (James Rhodes/War Machine) wasn’t a multiverse-based move. The various iterations of Batman and Superman aren’t multiverse-driven. Heck, James McAvoy/Patrick Stewart (Professor X) and Michael Fassbender/Ian McKellum (Magneto) were eventually retconned into younger/older versions of one another, so even that’s not a multiverse-driven recasting. 

Oh I don't mean two two different actors playing the same character. Basically being able to off RDJ as Iron Man as he was getting back end profits that by the time Avengers came around he got about 50 million. That's a HUGE amount to budget for and once established it's not like actors expect less for the next installment. So a plan needs to start to be put in place to ween the MCU off of high paid actors. So you can have a memorable 'ending' and before that start establishing other actors. Tom Holland, Brie Larson and then phase 4 etc...Once they are paid too well you've already started establishing the next level and the franchise just keeps chugging along. However insulting some of the fanbase/consumer isn't a good idea and some fans felt that happened with passing the torch to Brie. I think Sony owning Spidey and Holland being so well liked a deal between the studios was a must. So my point was cheaper actors being brought in to fill other characters to replace main characters. Will be interesting to see what they do with the Guardians characters. With the team going in different ways they might put 1 in every project moving forward. Like 'filler'  to get the audience to 'buy into' and want to go see it. With the writers strike last time I saw a rise in 'reality TV' as producers could just fund and put personalities together to match or conflict (drama) If the actors also strike this week I think YouTube type of entertainment might fill the role that reality TV did last time. 

Personally out of all the comic book characters I'd like Spawn to be given another shot but as a Netflix series type of thing like the cartoon HBO did. I'll be watching Blade but I don't see me paying to follow the MCU going forward and DC has the best cartoons but live action not so much. Hollywood likes to 'copy' just like sports teams (The Patriot Way' because taking chances on new material is harder to 'pitch' unless an established actor is on the ticket/producer credit. The problem with that is staying within budget. Horror is able keep that lower by theme (Purge/Saw) by having lesser to unknown names attached to now established IP. 

So if I was creating a new sports network I'd be hiring some of the fired ESPNers instead of going with a Rich Eisen unknown because the 'brand' (NFL) is the established IP and now by default so is Rich Eisen. Nate Burleson has been able to just to different boats and build himself up enough that giving him a piece of the action (back end deal/partial owner) would be a great way to start too. IMO...Creating your own business is risky but if successful the rewards are much higher. 

Whoops I blab to much after a few. lol