MrBobGray Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: What? 4 targets to Adams and 0 to Graham is poor offensive playcalling anyway you slice it. Calling out LaFleur for not being good is not embarrassing, it's the truth. The guy subbed in Shep to block for a WR screen last week, like what in the hell? You have Allison, Tonyan, Lewis, Lazard and you bring in the smallest guy on the team? The play went for negative yards shockingly. Aaron is top 5 in passes behind the LOS, Adams, Shepherd and Jones (the 3 guys with the agility and explosion to actually convert a behind the LOS pass into a good gain) have 0 of those targets. LaFleur has been an excellent HC, an excellent game planner and film watcher and a miserable play caller thus far. This has been what I feel is the most notable issue thus far. There just seems to be a fundamental breakdown between calling the offense based on your philosophy and your personnel. So many strange, often downright confusing personnel choices for given plays. If you aren't making use of the strengths of your players you're not calling a good game regardless of how good the call itself is schematically. Davante has 2 targets in the redzone this season, and none inside the 10. Jimmy has 1. I don't care if you're scoring every drive anyway, that's just an unacceptable breakdown full stop. Whatever the plan they're trying to execute, they really need to take a step back and realize that the plan needs to be built around the players, not an ideal. Coaching for the ideal is for the offseason; the games are live and they matter now, time to work with what you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 49 minutes ago, Uffdaswede said: Listening to Kuhn today and he was saying, I think, that the offense is clicking when it hasn't dug a hole for itself. He feels that the offense has the plays that produce shots, but they aren't useful until the 40s. They also have an effective play book for the red zone, but they have to be in the red zone (Snape voice: Oooobviously...). I think he is optimistic that the playbook is still adding a few good wrinkles to get them through the occasional hole they might put themselves into via holds and drops. On Graham, I have a hard time in general criticizing good guy players that gut out injuries. What I hope is that LeFleur--in answering Nagler's blunt question about Graham--said one thing in order to be sensitive and kind to a regarded veteran, but will actually look for ways to work around Graham's damaged and diminishing skill set. As far as Graham, I haven't seen evidence that his skill set being diminished is the problem. He was never a plus starter as the Y, he was always a better fit as a big slot or even playing at the X against a LB. He's a wall-off blocker who can win 1v1 as a receiver against most LBers and a fair number of DBs. They need to get him isolated against a match-up and go to it, not keep asking him to run wham blocks and try to 1v1 the other team's best rusher in pass pro. You can force coverages with a guy like that if that's what you want him to do because just putting him in certain spots demands certain defensive responses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, cannondale said: You're not the boss of me. The same concerns are starting to be seen and are popping up by many despite the 3-0 start. So I will post my opinion as much as I like And you do post your opinions ... for sure. However, not so sure there are as many as you who think being 3-0 sucks and all your concerns are season ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 42 minutes ago, cannondale said: If that's the case, which it could very well be, one would think the playbook would have been settled upon by now, or at the very least, the shortlist of plays selected for any given game would be rock solid. Things like Rodgers throwing the ball into the ground at the snap should never happen IMO. I've been waiting for an All-22 from someone like Fennell to see what the WR separations have been like. Rodgers has had time in many instances and hasn't thrown the ball. Rodgers has also praised MLF for some of the play calls in his interviews. It's a mystery. It's not the play selection that's the issue, it's the fundamental understanding of what you're trying to accomplish on a given drive. On any given playcall, you're trying to A) beat the defense, B) set up future calls, and C) gain some knowledge about the defense. At this point, it feels like each play is only accomplishing one of those things. The throwing the ball in the dirt is a call gone wrong; they thought they would get one look and they didn't and the call no longer works. Now Rodgers should be able to read this and realize the situation, but frankly his pre-snap processing has looked much worse the last few years and on top of that he's still got a lot on his mind about what he's trying to do. He often looks like he's thinking when he should be reacting. I do think both of these will get better with time. People forget that Rodgers is running a lot of these calls live for the first time; expecting him to know exactly where the ball should go on a play he doesn't have a lot of experience with is a bit unfair. I think his misses come from this too; he tries to rush the throw because he's not anticipating the window. For MLF, time and experience will help him figure out which calls his personnel is executing, as well as which personnel need to be featured more/less. This doesn't mean I expecting them to get this thing locked down perfectly this season, but I would expect the flow and overall execution of the plan to improve dramatically week to week (which we've arguably already seen.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, coachbuns said: And you do post your opinions ... for sure. However, not so sure there are as many as you who think being 3-0 sucks and all your concerns are season ending. And there's the problem. I literally never said any of those things. Look, I can deal with someone disagreeing just fine. I can deal with someone hating what I post just fine. What I can't deal with is taking what I say and tacking on a bunch of garbage for the sole purpose of skewing my perspective because it's easier than coming up with a valid argument to the contrary. I will call it out every time because it's bush league. I have said you can't take away from what has gotten us to 3-0. That is no small feat all things considered. But I also drew a parallel to 2011 season when anyone who dared voice a concern about the defense was a whiner and a fool. If that makes me less of a fan, I don't care. I'm just posting what I see. Argue with me, quote me, block me, do whatever you want. Just don't post garbage like the bolded above Edited September 24, 2019 by cannondale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, MrBobGray said: It's not the play selection that's the issue, it's the fundamental understanding of what you're trying to accomplish on a given drive. On any given playcall, you're trying to A) beat the defense, B) set up future calls, and C) gain some knowledge about the defense. At this point, it feels like each play is only accomplishing one of those things. The throwing the ball in the dirt is a call gone wrong; they thought they would get one look and they didn't and the call no longer works. Now Rodgers should be able to read this and realize the situation, but frankly his pre-snap processing has looked much worse the last few years and on top of that he's still got a lot on his mind about what he's trying to do. He often looks like he's thinking when he should be reacting. I do think both of these will get better with time. People forget that Rodgers is running a lot of these calls live for the first time; expecting him to know exactly where the ball should go on a play he doesn't have a lot of experience with is a bit unfair. I think his misses come from this too; he tries to rush the throw because he's not anticipating the window. For MLF, time and experience will help him figure out which calls his personnel is executing, as well as which personnel need to be featured more/less. This doesn't mean I expecting them to get this thing locked down perfectly this season, but I would expect the flow and overall execution of the plan to improve dramatically week to week (which we've arguably already seen.) I hope you're right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Packers offense ranks after 3 weeks (not adjusted for opponent, which will certainly go up due to facing MIN and CHI): Rushing Offense: 16th Passing Offense: 14th Our offense is currently functioning as an average offense in both facets against above average competition, and have continued to improve each week. Lotta reason for optimism! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 3-0 Baby. 3-0. Cool thing? We've been improving, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoremore Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 42 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Packers offense ranks after 3 weeks (not adjusted for opponent, which will certainly go up due to facing MIN and CHI): Rushing Offense: 16th Passing Offense: 14th Our offense is currently functioning as an average offense in both facets against above average competition, and have continued to improve each week. Lotta reason for optimism! I don't know where you got those stats but they are wrong. Check out this link... https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/stat/passing We are near the bottom in Passing Offense 27th. Rushing 24th. Overall 28th. It's been pitiful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, cannondale said: And there's the problem. I literally never said any of those things. Look, I can deal with someone disagreeing just fine. I can deal with someone hating what I post just fine. What I can't deal with is taking what I say and tacking on a bunch of garbage for the sole purpose of skewing my perspective because it's easier than coming up with a valid argument to the contrary. I will call it out every time because it's bush league. I have said you can't take away from what has gotten us to 3-0. That is no small feat all thingns considered. But I also drew a parallel to 2011 season when anyone who dared voice a concern about the defense was a whiner and a fool. If that makes me less of a fan, I don't care. I'm just posting what I see. Argue with me, quote me, block me, do whatever you want. Just don't post garbage like the bolded above Then maybe you'd better state yourself/thoughts better than you have been doing. While you may think of it as garbage being tacked onto your thoughts, it's in reality my thoughts on your thoughts ... nothing more, nothing less. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 hours ago, incognito_man said: Packers offense ranks after 3 weeks (not adjusted for opponent, which will certainly go up due to facing MIN and CHI): Rushing Offense: 16th Passing Offense: 14th Our offense is currently functioning as an average offense in both facets against above average competition, and have continued to improve each week. Lotta reason for optimism! DVOA rocking the hell out of that extremely heavy turnover factoring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howler Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scoremore said: I don't know where you got those stats but they are wrong. Check out this link... https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/stat/passing We are near the bottom in Passing Offense 27th. Rushing 24th. Overall 28th. It's been pitiful... But the TO margin is +6, so that hides a lot of issues. Edited September 24, 2019 by Howler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Scoremore said: I don't know where you got those stats but they are wrong. Check out this link... https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/stat/passing We are near the bottom in Passing Offense 27th. Rushing 24th. Overall 28th. It's been pitiful... DVOA The supreme metric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 42 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: DVOA rocking the hell out of that extremely heavy turnover factoring? Probably moreso that GBs offense had an elite start in 1/3 games, a good start in 1/3 and have finished all 3 off well. There are some very valuable plays our offense has made which offsets the bad schit and comes out to an average performance overall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaire_Island Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Get that Boy Jay Gruden as a play caller if Matt’s Play calling is not working. That would be a dream coaching team out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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