Damarious Randall traded to the Browns for DeShone Kizer

[LacyIsGood]

1 hour ago, FAH1223 said:

This has McCarthy's stench all over it.

What a colossal fukk up it was not to give Gutekunst full control. 

I've seen this referenced a couple times...did I miss something this offseason when it comes to who calls the shots?  I thought Gute and MM both report to Murphy, but Gute still has complete autonomy as GM?  I agree that MM clearly influenced this decision, but that's different than actually making it.

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, LacyIsGood said:

I've seen this referenced a couple times...did I miss something this offseason when it comes to who calls the shots?  I thought Gute and MM both report to Murphy, but Gute still has complete autonomy as GM?  I agree that MM clearly influenced this decision, but that's different than actually making it.

You didn't miss anything. Just someone who needs to whine about something.

[Lyndon55]

Not that surprised. New GM cleaning up the mess. Huntley blew, and a player who did not grasp the "team" concept...or employee v.s. boss relationship.
Not sure about MM's role. I would imagine our new D. cord. had some input.

[Leader]

This was posted incorrectly. Can someone delete it? Thanks!

[Leader]

 

[Chili]

Just watched both Hundley and Kizer highlights. They're not the same at all.

Kizer can make deep throws. Hundley cannot.

Kizer is thicker built whilst Hundley is skinnier. Kizer body type is much more suited to quarterbacking.

Kizer looks and sounds smarter when talking. Hundley is meh.

Hundley barely make passes 5 yards past the line of scrimmage and often only throws the ball to the right hand side of the field. Very limited. Kizer at least has the ability to make more type of throws.

Both can move around decently but Kizer appears to be much more natural at it.

You can see why Kizer was considered a potential 1st round pick whilst Hundley ended up in the 5th round. The difference is significant. Kizer physical gifts alone represents an upgrade at backup QB.

I think the only reason Hundley appears to have done better last season is because our coaches did a better (less worst?!) job on him than the Browns coaches did with Kizer.

The stability of the Packers vs the Browns was clearly a factor. Kizer was the front office choice but Hue did not want him. The front office forced Hue to start him and Hue couldn't wait to drop him every chance he could. Also it didn't help that Hue was banging the drum for McCarron that the front office stabotaged the trade for. It was a complete mess and an environment which did not help Kizer at all. Hue Jackson's ego just would not allow him to work with Kizer as he was not "his" guy and the front office being twats forcing a guy to play before he's even ready. Pathetic.

Hundley at the very least had stability for 3 years and had very little to show for it. I'm willing to bet Kizer would do far better in a much more stable environment.

All the draft experts were in agreement that Kizer need some coaching and seasoning before he's ready to compete in the NFL. He wasn't getting it with the Browns but he at least will have the opportunity to get that with the Packers.

[AlexGreen#20]

40 minutes ago, Chili said:

Just watched both Hundley and Kizer highlights. They're not the same at all.

Kizer can make deep throws. Hundley cannot.

Kizer is thicker built whilst Hundley is skinnier. Kizer body type is much more suited to quarterbacking.

Kizer looks and sounds smarter when talking. Hundley is meh.

Hundley barely make passes 5 yards past the line of scrimmage and often only throws the ball to the right hand side of the field. Very limited. Kizer at least has the ability to make more type of throws.

Both can move around decently but Kizer appears to be much more natural at it.

You can see why Kizer was considered a potential 1st round pick whilst Hundley ended up in the 5th round. The difference is significant. Kizer physical gifts alone represents an upgrade at backup QB.

I think the only reason Hundley appears to have done better last season is because our coaches did a better (less worst?!) job on him than the Browns coaches did with Kizer.

The stability of the Packers vs the Browns was clearly a factor. Kizer was the front office choice but Hue did not want him. The front office forced Hue to start him and Hue couldn't wait to drop him every chance he could. Also it didn't help that Hue was banging the drum for McCarron that the front office stabotaged the trade for. It was a complete mess and an environment which did not help Kizer at all. Hue Jackson's ego just would not allow him to work with Kizer as he was not "his" guy and the front office being twats forcing a guy to play before he's even ready. Pathetic.

Hundley at the very least had stability for 3 years and had very little to show for it. I'm willing to bet Kizer would do far better in a much more stable environment.

All the draft experts were in agreement that Kizer need some coaching and seasoning before he's ready to compete in the NFL. He wasn't getting it with the Browns but he at least will have the opportunity to get that with the Packers.

Come on man, you're trying to talk yourself into this thing. 

Hundley was also considered a potential #1 pick heading into his final collegiate season. Kizer dropped to the bottom of the 2nd round as well, and may have continued to fall further if not for the Browns ineptitude. We're not talking Andrew Luck here.

Why do people keep acting like Kizer is some freak athlete and Hundley is Graham Harrel. Hundley is a faster more explosive athlete. 

You can't fairly rip on Hundley's issues and not talk about the fact that Kizer throws the ball to the wrong team a staggering amount. And again, we're not talking Favre who was throwing a ton of TDs and a ton of INTs, we're talking about a guy who threw very few TDs and a ton of INTs. Hundley threw 9 TDs in 9 games. Kizer threw 11 TDs in 15 games. 

[JBURGE]

23 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Come on man, you're trying to talk yourself into this thing. 

Hundley was also considered a potential #1 pick heading into his final collegiate season. Kizer dropped to the bottom of the 2nd round as well, and may have continued to fall further if not for the Browns ineptitude. We're not talking Andrew Luck here.

Why do people keep acting like Kizer is some freak athlete and Hundley is Graham Harrel. Hundley is a faster more explosive athlete. 

You can't fairly rip on Hundley's issues and not talk about the fact that Kizer throws the ball to the wrong team a staggering amount. And again, we're not talking Favre who was throwing a ton of TDs and a ton of INTs, we're talking about a guy who threw very few TDs and a ton of INTs. Hundley threw 9 TDs in 9 games. Kizer threw 11 TDs in 15 games. 

Kizer can't read a defense. He is so inept it's embarrassing. But the guy was young and I don't think anyone here would have said he was ready to be an NFL starter last year. Same with Hundley coming out, I just think the tools on Kizer are better, and I'm willing to wait 

[FinneasGage]

4 minutes ago, JBURGE25 said:

He is so inept it's embarrassing. 

rude

[TheGreatZepp]

3 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

Wanting Randall off the team is the only reason this makes sense.

My main concern is we have enough holes already without making new ones. You probably need to sign a free agent to replace Randall using cap space we don't have. Which means cutting someone else - maybe a receiver. Which now makes receiver absolute priority 1 in the draft (along with the other absolute number 1 priorities). Everything just got harder.

Kizer isn't going to help us win the super-bowl. If Rodgers go down then he may give us a better chance of getting to 8-8 than if we stick with Hundley but really he doesn't make the overall strength of the team higher. Randall was probably our best defensive back last season so losing him weakens the team.

If he is upsetting the team harmony and Gute wants him off the team then fair enough. Ditto if he doesn't fit into the new defense. Ultimately though this makes the team weaker and makes everything a lot more difficult. 

I doubt many will argue that the defensive backfield greatly underperformed to expectations. The physical tools were there but the performance wasnt there, everyone back there needs to be reevaluated.

Gone is Capers, coaching and scheme was certainly partially at fault. You have to think about pass rush and how to generate more to take pressure off the backend. The rest of the equation begins with evaluating the in house talent. On field performance, Contract, health, physical abilities/fit, attitude all factor in.

The Packers have for arguments sake cut ties with old leadership, McCarthy is ready to move on, they are lookin at the team with new eyes and little sentimental/prior attachment. Really, who is going to buy in and perform to expectations.

When I look at it this way it is easy to see why the Packers moved on from Randall and I doubt he’s the only one they are ready to move on from but he became the poster child for the underperforming secondary last year. He wasn’t going to be resigned after 2018, his commitment to the team has been publicly brought into question, he hasn’t been durable. There is the argument that for stretches of the season he was the best player in the secondary but when everyone looks replaceable the other variables need to make the decisions.

[SpeightTheVillain]

42 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Come on man, you're trying to talk yourself into this thing. 

Hundley was also considered a potential #1 pick heading into his final collegiate season. Kizer dropped to the bottom of the 2nd round as well, and may have continued to fall further if not for the Browns ineptitude. We're not talking Andrew Luck here.

Why do people keep acting like Kizer is some freak athlete and Hundley is Graham Harrel. Hundley is a faster more explosive athlete. 

You can't fairly rip on Hundley's issues and not talk about the fact that Kizer throws the ball to the wrong team a staggering amount. And again, we're not talking Favre who was throwing a ton of TDs and a ton of INTs, we're talking about a guy who threw very few TDs and a ton of INTs. Hundley threw 9 TDs in 9 games. Kizer threw 11 TDs in 15 games. 

He also ran for 5 TDs. So 16 TDs in 15 games. Hundley at 11 TDs in 9 games. 

Kizer had a higher YPA, YPC, and a lower sack % despite playing behind an arguably worse offensive line and being a rookie.

He makes horrible decisions and throws a bunch INTs - we all see that.

But he clearly has more potential then Hundley at this point. Even for just being younger and in his second year. 

[Packerraymond]

46 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Come on man, you're trying to talk yourself into this thing. 

Hundley was also considered a potential #1 pick heading into his final collegiate season. Kizer dropped to the bottom of the 2nd round as well, and may have continued to fall further if not for the Browns ineptitude. We're not talking Andrew Luck here.

Why do people keep acting like Kizer is some freak athlete and Hundley is Graham Harrel. Hundley is a faster more explosive athlete. 

You can't fairly rip on Hundley's issues and not talk about the fact that Kizer throws the ball to the wrong team a staggering amount. And again, we're not talking Favre who was throwing a ton of TDs and a ton of INTs, we're talking about a guy who threw very few TDs and a ton of INTs. Hundley threw 9 TDs in 9 games. Kizer threw 11 TDs in 15 games. 

31 of 64 (48.4%) for 302 yards, 1 TD and 4 INTs vs 8TDs to 5 turnovers, no games under 50% completion and 3 100+ QBR games.

That's Hundley with his starting WRs and Hundley the two weeks without them at seasons end. Color the stats any way you want to fit your point, the talent on the field around you matters. Hundley was total garbage in those last two games, completely uncomfortable and had awful decisions, that throw to Harrison Smith in the red zone was one of the worst INTs I saw all year.

Do I want Hundley gone? Nope. Do I think he's totally capable of being our backup? Yup, I like the guy and would've had no issue if he was the only other QB on this years roster. I'm just sick of people laying it on Kizer's numbers from last year. That was the worst roster constructed in NFL history (or 2nd worst). No QB was going to be respectable there.

[cannondale]

Some McGinn stuff

Still, I can fully understand where the Packers were coming from regarding Randall. Despite his ball skills and speed, they knew after three years they simply couldn’t count on him.

“How can you depend on him?” an NFL executive in personnel said. “Takes himself out of games. Never played 16 games. He’s got all kinds of ability. He can be a slot or play (outside). But you can’t trust him. He won’t play. He can look great or he can look like a scrub.”

“Most talented player on that defense but he’s a nut case,” said an NFL personnel man familiar with Randall. “He needs to be somewhere where there’s somebody tough.”

You can’t win consistently with an emotional diva like Damarious Randall. When an organization concludes it doesn’t even want a player around the locker room anymore, and that probably was the case in Green Bay, it’s good business to move him when there’s still value and then pressure yourself to get better.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

31 of 64 (48.4%) for 302 yards, 1 TD and 4 INTs vs 8TDs to 5 turnovers, no games under 50% completion and 3 100+ QBR games.

That's Hundley with his starting WRs and Hundley the two weeks without them at seasons end. Color the stats any way you want to fit your point, the talent on the field around you matters. Hundley was total garbage in those last two games, completely uncomfortable and had awful decisions, that throw to Harrison Smith in the red zone was one of the worst INTs I saw all year.

Do I want Hundley gone? Nope. Do I think he's totally capable of being our backup? Yup, I like the guy and would've had no issue if he was the only other QB on this years roster. I'm just sick of people laying it on Kizer's numbers from last year. That was the worst roster constructed in NFL history (or 2nd worst). No QB was going to be respectable there.

That division could also be: Packers trying to win vs Packers trying to lose. The Browns were always trying to win. 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, cannondale said:

Some McGinn stuff

Still, I can fully understand where the Packers were coming from regarding Randall. Despite his ball skills and speed, they knew after three years they simply couldn’t count on him.

“How can you depend on him?” an NFL executive in personnel said. “Takes himself out of games. Never played 16 games. He’s got all kinds of ability. He can be a slot or play (outside). But you can’t trust him. He won’t play. He can look great or he can look like a scrub.”

“Most talented player on that defense but he’s a nut case,” said an NFL personnel man familiar with Randall. “He needs to be somewhere where there’s somebody tough.”

You can’t win consistently with an emotional diva like Damarious Randall. When an organization concludes it doesn’t even want a player around the locker room anymore, and that probably was the case in Green Bay, it’s good business to move him when there’s still value and then pressure yourself to get better.

Pretty much convinced McGinn makes stuff up at this point, or minimally calls around and asks until he gets the quotes he wants.