MacReady Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Whoever is on the theory that The Hound didn't kill that kid may be onto something. Whoever posted that video of The Hound "admitting" to it to Beric is wrong. He didn't admit to it. It almost seems as if he's trying his hardest to admit he did it without specifically saying, "Yeah, I killed the kid." He said only he was following the prince's orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 People debating the Sam thing. Brienne killed Royces son in Renlys tent. He was one of the guards that rushed in after hearing screaming. And they had scenes where they were in the same room. Sat on the same bench, at the same table together. So I think theyll just ignore the Sam/Dany thing like they did with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 On 9/2/2017 at 5:21 AM, seminoles1 said: Or, you know, he's just a changed man. I think the idea of retconning him into a better man that he was perceived to be is just a bad narrative decision. Why can't people just grow and change? Why can't good people have done bad things? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Forge said: I think the idea of retconning him into a better man that he was perceived to be is just a bad narrative decision. Why can't people just grow and change? Why can't good people have done bad things? I dont think its bad narrative at all. Im rewatching the series over. Im at Battle of the Blackwater. With like I mentioned, when Hound walks into the room with Bronn and the soldiers and they get in each others grill about to fight. First time watching through, Im on Bronns side like everyone else. But now I can see it as Bronns might actually be bad guy in that situation. Episode before Tyrion asked Bronn about about questioning him if he needed a baby put down. And he said hed ask "How much?" Bronns evil, and that could be more of why Hound was picking a fight than ego. Cause hound doesnt give a crap about ego. Its like where Im from down South America. Some places are horrible, and you might be good, but stuck in situation doing horrible things. Hounds stuck, he has to play the game. Soon as he left from playing, he instantly started evolving into what was actually there to begin with, but cast aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Forge said: I think the idea of retconning him into a better man that he was perceived to be is just a bad narrative decision. Why can't people just grow and change? Why can't good people have done bad things? It's a very narrow minded view of the world. That good is good and bad is bad. That good guys who do bad things are misunderstood, and bad people who do good things have an ulterior motive. Martin's books are good at showing people at just being people. And anyone who is placed into a bad situation can become a monster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 41 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said: I dont think its bad narrative at all. Im rewatching the series over. Im at Battle of the Blackwater. With like I mentioned, when Hound walks into the room with Bronn and the soldiers and they get in each others grill about to fight. First time watching through, Im on Bronns side like everyone else. But now I can see it as Bronns might actually be bad guy in that situation. Episode before Tyrion asked Bronn about about questioning him if he needed a baby put down. And he said hed ask "How much?" Bronns evil, and that could be more of why Hound was picking a fight than ego. Cause hound doesnt give a crap about ego. Its like where Im from down South America. Some places are horrible, and you might be good, but stuck in situation doing horrible things. Hounds stuck, he has to play the game. Soon as he left from playing, he instantly started evolving into what was actually there to begin with, but cast aside. How is Bronn evil? Because he asks how much to kill a kid? The Hound has killed countless people because he was paid to do so as well. He was hired by Cersei to protect Joffery. Hired, he didn't do it out of a sense of duty, honor or loyalty. He was no different then Bronn. He like Bronn learned early in life that the only person that they can depend on is themselves. There is no, people are born good or bad. They are a product of their environment and nothing. They may see something they want or want to be like. But most of these people didn't have a loaded gun to their head when they commuted these crimes. They just did so because it's the job they are paid to do. And considering the environment they live in. It's not unreasonable to imagine that they are just desensitized to violence in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Calvert28 said: How is Bronn evil? Because he asks how much to kill a kid? The Hound has killed countless people because he was paid to do so as well. He was hired by Cersei to protect Joffery. Hired, he didn't do it out of a sense of duty, honor or loyalty. He was no different then Bronn. He like Bronn learned early in life that the only person that they can depend on is themselves. There is no, people are born good or bad. They are a product of their environment and nothing. They may see something they want or want to be like. But most of these people didn't have a loaded gun to their head when they commuted these crimes. They just did so because it's the job they are paid to do. And considering the environment they live in. It's not unreasonable to imagine that they are just desensitized to violence in general. But Hound had it good under Robert for years. Joffery was a moster he put up with for a short time until he snapped and couldnt take no more. Like when he saved Sansa from the mob, and Tyrion thanked him on behalf of the realm. He said, "I didnt do it for you." End of Roberts term, when having it good, he jumped in and protected Renly. Joffery didnt rule long, and in just that amount of time he snapped from it. When Sansa was in front of the court and Joffery and wanted her to strip. He hated it, and was the one that ran over and wrapped her up when Tyrion barged in. He is different from Bronn in a way of it being not what he originally signed up for, and when he couldnt take it any longer, bailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Uhhhhh no, he was treated like a dog by Joffery for years. You think those monster acts after Robert died? Go back and read the conversation between Ned Robert in the first book when they were on the road back to kingslanding. Joffery had been that way for years. Plus its also strongly hinted that because Robert was such an absentee dad. That Joffery later just adopted the hound as his later role model and tried to be more like him. So in a sense they helped ruin each other. Plus him defending Sansa was not some great act of chivalry as you want to insinuate. Sure part of it was because he hated it for her. But he's seen countless atrocities. Why go in to help sansa? Why even bother with her. There's a number of different things that can explain it and if chivalry was one of them it was a very, very, very, very minor reason. Part of the reason he even talked to sansa, I'm guessing by the way he treated her was because on some level he resented her. Resented her upbringing. Always being cheerful, and such. Living with her head in the clouds while he's had such a sh!tty life. Some of it was also because he probably did care for her a bit, often referring to her as a little song bird. Usually he meant this as a insult. But may have developed a deeper meaning as the Hound was not a sadist like Joffery was. He didn't see the point in torturing or hurting something that couldn't fight back. But all of this leads to the last reason why he dealt with her and even helped her. Was because he was attracted to her. Like Hannibal Lector and Clarice. There was a sick fascination with her. Either way, he is human. Not a good human that was born good, not a bad guy who was born bad. He was just dealt a crappy hand in life with some bad experiences and just made sense of it as he grew older. Nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 On 9/2/2017 at 11:58 AM, Calvert28 said: If that were the case then it to Sam would be the same Nights Watch that gave him and Jon so much trouble. So not getting where this thing comes from that Sam feels a close connection to them. And no connection? Are you seriously reading what youre typing right now? I don't care how bad his childhood was. That was a lifetime of memories before he came to the wall. Again you think that just because his father bullied that Sam automatically hates him. That is not always the case. Even if he did, all that can change in a blink of an eye when he finds out that he's dead, burnt alive like the Mad King did to his victims. Do you not understand psychology at all? Abused victims of a family member all the time still feel a kinship towards one another. It really takes a special type of sociopath to not feel anything. Even Randal was that way, which was clear by that last scene with Dikkon that he feels. And even if he was not Sam has never shown a hateful or resentful or even bitter bone in his body. And lets say for sh!ts and giggles that your right, and Sam feels nothing about it when he hears the news which would be piss poor writing IMO. What happens with no real Lord or order for that matter in the Reach now, that his mother and sister are robbed and raped by their servants or outlaws because they have no fear of repercussions. And Sam blames Dany because she took away their protection. Burning all her enemies? You don't think that is a possible scenario? Last thing, giving them the option to bend the knee is not character growth. She has been doing that since book 1. Once again you are missing almost every point here. The only real family Sam has ever felt close to is Jon (who has saved his life many times) and Gilly. That's it. And the Knights Watch that Sam left is not the same as what he first arrived to. It is Jons KW, it is the place that he has settled in being run by who he sees as his true brother (not **** on who he doesn't give a flip about). And when he returns, it's even more cleared out of the people who wer crappy to him when he first got there. Yes he still cares for and probably loves his mother (who as far as we know is just fine not being raped and killed as your red herring would suggest). But his father did not just "bully" him. He threatened to KILL him. End his life, if he had not denounced all rights to his lands and title and join the nights watch. I don't care if it's my father or not (who gave him a childhood of complete hell as far as we have been told) if someone forced me to banish myself with the rejects and scum of the world we live in as my only other option to be run down and murdered by him, I would be thanking the person who riddled the world of them. Especially now that my closest friend and brother in the world is now not only aligned with them, but boning and creating the most powerful force we have ever assembled to go against the supernatural, unstoppable force coming for us. (I can also thrown in the man who sam just risked his life to save, just because he was his former commanders estranged son). Remember them? The death coming for all that Sam is more worried about than anything else? He above everyone knows thT the petty squabbles among houses mean jack squat. It it is also quite evident that you are conflating the show and the books. They are two very different things at this point. And if you think her actions with The Tarleys in season 7 are anywhere close to what she was doing in season 2 and up until she sailed to Westeros, you need to go rewatch how she treated anyone who even thought of opposing her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I like heated arguments I'm not involved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MdTitansFan56 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Just started the series on Friday finished season 1 last night. I never thought I'd get into this but as each episode passes I find myself craving more. Sadly I know a lot of the major things that happen due to walking through the room my dad is watching plus its been on for 6 years and all. Not so much the recent seasons but the older ones I know and Im still looking forward to seeing them play out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Sam's dad told him to join the Nights Watch or else they'd go hunting and an "accident" would occur where Sam would die. I don't think Sam will give a rip about him getting burned alive. Dickon however, might get a bit of a reaction. They were never that close, but he also didn't threaten to kill him and Sam's mom loved Dickon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 17 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: I like heated arguments I'm not involved in. They never seem to happen around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Is it coincidence that after nearly drowning people fully align themselves with Dany? Tyrion in the river, Jon in the icy water, and Jaime after charging her. This is assuming that Jaime does join her next season. Any other instances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 So I'm watching deleted scenes from the show and they're all pretty terrible There are even some Greyworm / Missandei scenes they removed, including one where Daario is teasing Greyworm about him porking Missandei if she needs it, and she can think of Greyworm while he's going at it.. awful just awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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