Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[pwny]

1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I don't see how this ending prevents any of that. Ramsey/Dany would intimidate people into voting for them. Tywin or Olenna would work behind the scenes to buy influence or favor.

None of those would even be in line for a chance at the throne. The lords and their offspring don’t get to be king or queen - full stop. Bran only gets to be because he’s not a Stark anymore. The seven lords would come together and try to choose the most noble man/woman of all the houses they can.

Sure, there’s a chance for corruption. There always is. But it’s no longer a birthright. There aren’t 7 kids who believe it’s their birthright to rule simply because they’re the child of a lord. 

[Packerraymond]

So what purpose does the Night's Watch serve with no Night King and an allegiance with the wildlings? They sent the most important character in the show to be a babysitter for your bastards and bandits?

Jon's end is my only gripe with the ending. He was the actual heir to rule and he was far and away the best one for it. Why does anyone care what Gray Worm or the unsullied think? They have no political pull, who cares if they are upset? They committed the same war crimes as Dany, they weren't in any power to tell the counsel what to do with Jon. Bran is a totally safe choice, but there's absolutely no leadership qualities there. He's just a guy who won't oppress people or start unnecessary wars so they picked him. Jon was the shield that guards the realm of men, when he was sent to Castle Black the first time, he was needed for that very purpose, now he was needed in Westeros. Weak and vulnerable would be how I would view the leadership group left in charge, I don't see much in the way of military strategy or leadership in charge. Any group that gets a good army together would have a shot to take Westeros.

Overall though, I'm content with the ending. Dany's death was perfect, it wasn't overdone, just quick, emotional justice. I'm glad the Starks got the happy ending, if any house earned it, they were it. I just got Aragorn vibes from Jon as he grew into a man, I thought he was the perfect one to lead them into the new chapter.

[skywindO2]

23 minutes ago, pwny said:

So 7 kings and queens. With 7 chances to make a Joffrey or Ramsay that will be cruel for the sake of being cruel, and 7 chances to create another Dany that will try to start a war so that she can rule them all, especially if she sees a Ramsay or Joffrey leading another. The lust for more power and control will always be there. 

well ackshually 

1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

The respective lords. (1)Tyrion would rule Casterly Rock, (2)Sansa would rule the north, there was a (3)Dornish prince in that council, (4)Gendry would rule the Stormlands, (5)Robin Arryn would rule the Vale, (6)Yara would rule the Iron Islands, (7)Bronn could rule the Reach, and (8)Edmure Tully could rule the Riverlands.

 

[pwny]

1 minute ago, skywindO2 said:

well ackshually 

 

Fite me irl

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

They sent the most important character in the show to be a babysitter for your bastards and bandits?

I'm interpreting it as Jon becoming the King Beyond the Wall - Mance Rayder was the last, NOT by birthright but because he united warring tribes to a common cause. 

Jon is no different. Nobody will bend the knee, give him the pomp and circumstances of KL, or chant him as "THE KING BEYOND THE WALL!" like you'll get in Winterfell. Jon just walks north, and the people follow - nobody had to crown him, but everyone up there would crown him at a moments notice.

[JonStark]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So what purpose does the Night's Watch serve with no Night King and an allegiance with the wildlings? They sent the most important character in the show to be a babysitter for your bastards and bandits?

Jon's end is my only gripe with the ending. He was the actual heir to rule and he was far and away the best one for it. Why does anyone care what Gray Worm or the unsullied think? They have no political pull, who cares if they are upset? They committed the same war crimes as Dany, they weren't in any power to tell the counsel what to do with Jon. Bran is a totally safe choice, but there's absolutely no leadership qualities there. He's just a guy who won't oppress people or start unnecessary wars so they picked him. Jon was the shield that guards the realm of men, when he was sent to Castle Black the first time, he was needed for that very purpose, now he was needed in Westeros. Weak and vulnerable would be how I would view the leadership group left in charge, I don't see much in the way of military strategy or leadership in charge. Any group that gets a good army together would have a shot to take Westeros.

Overall though, I'm content with the ending. Dany's death was perfect, it wasn't overdone, just quick, emotional justice. I'm glad the Starks got the happy ending, if any house earned it, they were it. I just got Aragorn vibes from Jon as he grew into a man, I thought he was the perfect one to lead them into the new chapter.

Honestly, he was too honorable to lead. He ended as a "bad guy" in the eyes of half the realm for doing the right thing, much like Ned. 

What that says about Bran, I'm not sure, but that's why I'm fine with Jon not being the king. 

 

[Leader]

Just now, JonStark said:

Honestly, he was too honorable to lead. He ended as a "bad guy" in the eyes of half the realm for doing the right thing, much like Ned.

In a sense, you could say he had too much Ned Stark in him.

 

[Leader]

I liked the touch with Brienne finishing off Jaime's story line. Thought that was well done and appropriate.

[pwny]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Bran is a totally safe choice, but there's absolutely no leadership qualities there. He's just a guy who won't oppress people or start unnecessary wars so they picked him.

This is kinda the point though. Instead of him being a leader and thinking he can do everything a king does, he instead can trust his small council. 

The Hand of the King, Master of Coin, Master of Whisperers, Master of Laws, Master of Ships, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and Grand Maester no longer simply advise one man who might already think he knows it all. Instead, they are essentially a congress that will collectively work together to decide what is best for the realm. One man no longer tells the Master of Coin to give money to the Master of Ships and to ignore the request for more brothels. Instead, the council works together to lead. 

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I'm interpreting it as Jon becoming the King Beyond the Wall - Mance Rayder was the last, NOT by birthright but because he united warring tribes to a common cause. 

Jon is no different. Nobody will bend the knee, give him the pomp and circumstances of KL, or chant him as "THE KING BEYOND THE WALL!" like you'll get in Winterfell. Jon just walks north, and the people follow - nobody had to crown him, but everyone up there would crown him at a moments notice.

I get that, it's like a happily ever after scenario for him (minus the fact that he had to fight against and kill the only 2 women he ever loved), I just see it as when they sent him up there the first time, that's where the world needed protection.

Now once all the slave driven regions hear of Dany's death and can see them banding together and trying to reclaim all she took, the greatest danger to mankind is far, far away from where they sent Jon. 

Has he earned the right to rule over a peaceful land with his pal Tormund and Ghost? Absolutely, but they built him as the only character in the show who went to whatever length possible to protect mankind, now he is long gone and the kingdoms are susceptible.

[Malfatron]

12 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So what purpose does the Night's Watch serve with no Night King and an allegiance with the wildlings? They sent the most important character in the show to be a babysitter for your bastards and bandits?

1. Some people might think Jon has a claim to the throne. Bran is removing this possibility from the equation.

2. Him sending Jon away proves to people that Bran is fair and theres no nepotism involved.

3. Bran sent Jon there because he knowong thats where Jon will be happiest(relative term for someone like Jon). Jon isnt a nightwatchman. Hes living with his free folk buds and Ghost to forge out a new life up in true north

[Malfatron]

12 minutes ago, skywindO2 said:

well ackshually 

 

Yep. Thats how you make the 8.

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, pwny said:

This is kinda the point though. Instead of him being a leader and thinking he can do everything a king does, he instead can trust his small council. 

The Hand of the King, Master of Coin, Master of Whisperers, Master of Laws, Master of Ships, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and Grand Maester no longer simply advise one man who might already think he knows it all. Instead, they are essentially a congress that will collectively work together to decide what is best for the realm. One man no longer tells the Master of Coin to give money to the Master of Ships and to ignore the request for more brothels. Instead, the council works together to lead. 

Sure but he is a leader, there still has to be leadership qualities there. I didn't mind Bran getting it. After Jon he was the only other logical choice, I just don't think men would follow him. Also I always wanted to learn more about the life and role of the three eyed Raven and him being King kind of makes that feel pushed aside.

[flyers0909]

Did Varys actually send any of those messages out before he died?  I thought he did and was anticipating more people to back Jon as the heir. 

[Leader]

13 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So what purpose does the Night's Watch serve with no Night King and an allegiance with the wildlings? They sent the most important character in the show to be a babysitter for your bastards and bandits? Jon's end is my only gripe with the ending. He was the actual heir to rule and he was far and away the best one for it. Why does anyone care what Gray Worm or the unsullied think? They have no political pull, who cares if they are upset? They committed the same war crimes as Dany, they weren't in any power to tell the counsel what to do with Jon.

It was portrayed as a political compromise to avoid further war and bloodshed.....and as a story line "turn key" his character was the only one which could accomplish it.

Also - dont discount the concept that "Jon had the North in him".  Its true. In a sense, its all he knows. He grew up a bastard and he's hardly one who "wants" for much. The mantle and responsibilities of power didnt sit well on him. He was a leader - but through his actions. His decision making wasnt the sharpest and political cunning wasnt his strong suit.