Good to Know Hue (Jackson Fired); Gregg Williams named Interim HC

[ramssuperbowl99]

15 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said:

Cleveland clearly knee-jerked this reaction. Just as we've seen with the Rams and Jeff Fisher, the Browns would be better off waiting and giving their head coach adequate time to turn the franchise around.

OH CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN

[Broncofan]

I posted this in the other thread in NFLGen, but since there are actual posts that are giving Hue some slack - well, I'll repost this here...

_______________________________

For those who think Hue's a scapegoat, they're not paying attention.

Let's recap:

1.  Hue didn't object at all to passing on Wentz, or Watson.   So he can't lay the problems of not finding QB on Sashi Brown alone.   He was the HC and supposed O guru.  He said it was fine to pass on both, no objections.

2.  This offseason, Jarvis Landry AND OC Todd Haley,  both new, on different occasions, told the team / Hue that they needed to get tougher, and not take practices off.  EPIC speech on Hard Knocks by Landry, convo between Haley & Hue.  Hue's response both times?  He said the players shouldn't practice so much, they risk getting hurt.  And that Landry really "needs to understand how we do things around here".   WTF?   Anyone who saw the speeches...well, I'll let you all decide who's right, coming off a 1-31 2-year run and 0-16 season.  Yeah, Landry should learn how CLE does things.  Because, 0-16 teams really shouldn't risk injury in trying to y'know, learn how to play better as a unit in practice, so they can actually win games.   SMH.

I can't post the youtube link because of the expletives (Webby's rules), but here's the transcript - if you can, make sure you see the ACTUAL video:

Quote

"I don't know what the f--- has been going on here," Landry said. "And I don't know why it's been going on here. But, if you're not hurting, if your hamstring isn't falling off the f---ing bone, your leg ain't broke, I don't know, you should be f---ing practicing. Like, straight up, that s--- is weakness. And that s--- is contagious as f---. That s--- ain't gonna be in this room, bruh. That s--- been in here in the past and that's why the past has been like it is, bruh. That s--- is over with, bruh. If you're gonna f---ing practice, f---ing practice."

(Landry's statements came 2-3 days after Haley and Hue disagreed on the players taking practices off.   Instead of recognizing leadership, and maybe recognizing Haley and Landry had great points, something any good leader is willing to do..... Hue torpedoed Landry's message, saying he needed to learn how CLE does things first....wow).

 

3.  Last year, Hue directly impacted the games with stupid play-call / roster decisions such as:

 

-Having Duke Johnson on the sidelines on key 3rd/4th down passing situations - for Isiaih Crowell. 

-Deciding Jabril Peppers should try FS - when he's clearly a SS.

-Deciding to keep Deshone Kizer as his starting QB, even when he amassed 10 TO's inside the opponent's 5-yard line.  TEN.    For those that said he didn't draft him - he didn't have to keep starting him, anyone (yes, even Kevin Hogan and Cody Kessler) would have done better than that.   But week in, week out, it was Kizer.

-Huge blunder play calls such as calling for a QB sneak from the opponent's 2-yard ine - with less than 20 secs to go in the 1H and no TO’s left.  Failed sneak (duh), can't get on the field in time for a FG...not even close.  

And that's just the obvious stuff.  Browns fans can point to so many more instances of his complete ineptitude at stuff that..well, HC's are supposed to do.

4.  Of course, we shouldn't forget that Hue & Haslem orchestrated the 2.1 for AJ McCarron trade - and then got Haslem to fire Sashi Brown for being the one smart guy in the room who realized that was an awful deal.    And of course, the other 31 teams agreed, since McCarron could only sign as a backup at 5M/1 year in FA...with BUF.     And remember, this is the guy who wanted Brock Osweiler to stay on the roster, when he was asked if Brock had done enough to stay on the team in the preseason, his answer?  "Ask Sashi".   Which brings me to...

5.  The dude has ZERO accountability.  It's always someone else's fault.  Which is a funny notion when you are the HC.   This week, now, of course, what do we hear?   "I need to take over an O when I know it can be better".  Well, news flash - he was calling the O when CLE was 1-31 the last 2 years. 

Hue's really great at throwing others under the bus - Sashi Brown for nixing the AJ McCarron deal, and releasing Brock Osweiler (both completely vindicated), and Todd Haley for "play calling issues now".  It's his MO from his OAK days.  But he's the one who should have been fired, not Sashi Brown.  I mean, the HC is where the buck stops, and everything above was completely under Hue's direct control.   But,  at least his time is coming up.  Because really, there's no one left to blame. 

So yeah, the Browns would absolutely benefit from a different HC.   Last year, you put in a guy who has a clue at HC, they win at least 2 of the 7 games that they lost by 6 points or less.   Anyone who thinks it would be more of the same,  well, they're not watching the games (to be fair, who can blame them, but it's also a completely inaccurate statement to say Hue's not the problem - he's a huuuuuuge part of the problem).  And it's a good thing that CLE is moving on - they'll be better off for it. 

[jrry32]

6 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

2.  This offseason, Jarvis Landry AND OC Todd Haley,  both new, on different occasions, told the team / Hue that they needed to get tougher, and not take practices off.  EPIC speech on Hard Knocks by Landry, convo between Haley & Hue.  Hue's response both times?  He said the players shouldn't practice so much, they risk getting hurt.  And that Landry really "needs to understand how we do things around here".   WTF?   Anyone who saw the speeches...well, I'll let you all decide who's right, coming off a 1-31 2-year run and 0-16 season.  Yeah, Landry should learn how CLE does things.  Because, 0-16 teams really shouldn't risk injury in trying to y'know, learn how to play better as a unit in practice, so they can actually win games.   SMH.

I can't post the youtube link because of the expletives (Webby's rules), but here's the transcript - if you can, make sure you see the ACTUAL video:

(Landry's statements came 2-3 days after Haley and Hue disagreed on the players taking practices off.   Instead of recognizing leadership, and maybe recognizing Haley and Landry had great points, something any good leader is willing to do..... Hue torpedoed Landry's message, saying he needed to learn how CLE does things first....wow).

Hue deserves plenty of criticism, but I don't think he's wrong here. That is also McVay's method. Now, there's a difference between being careful about injuries and not taking practice seriously. McVay takes practice very seriously. He looks to squeeze every useful second out of practice, so he's always on our guys to hustle from drill to drill and keep things moving. However, he also takes player safety and risk management very seriously. He's not one of those old school coaches who tries to prove how tough his team is by putting them through the ringer.

[Thomas5737]

9 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Let’s not pretend that the Browns weren’t in a full tank mode under Hue for their big rebuild they kept selling their fans 

Well if you are tanking Hue is the coach for you. Hue outlasted the guy who was doing the rebuild, he who Hue put all of the blame on him prior to him being released. Hue is a terrible human being when it comes to accepting blame and collecting credit. He is like a self conscience 13 year old, can't ever be seen as anything but perfect so he will spin it where he is always right and he insists that he is always right so he doesn't change because that would be wrong.

As far as just on the field stuff he is average but you have to have his guys, he won't coach to his players strengths. As far as everything outside of the field, he is terrible to have around.

Might be a great guy in the real world but in football he is very immature which seems to stem from a lack of confidence so he tries to prove to everyone else he is awesome at the expense of anyone who gets in his way.

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Hue deserves plenty of criticism, but I don't think he's wrong here. That is also McVay's method. Now, there's a difference between being careful about injuries and not taking practice seriously. McVay takes practice very seriously. He looks to squeeze every useful second out of practice, so he's always on our guys to hustle from drill to drill and keep things moving. However, he also takes player safety and risk management very seriously. He's not one of those old school coaches who tries to prove how tough his team is by putting them through the ringer.

There's context, though.   McVay believes in that because his team has incorporated the right habits, knows the playbook, etc.  And they have instilled a culture of performance.  I actually don't have a problem with McVay's viewpoint.   I didn't have a problem with them skipping the preseason - so long as they understood they were putting Week 1's game at greater risk, but they were good enough (and OAK bad enough) they could overcome this.

Meanwhile, in CLE, they can't even get the right plays in.   They're a team that doesn't perform at any point.   They need to work together more.   I actually don't have a problem with legit injuries being treated as such - but getting more time together in practice, etc. - is crucial for a losing team.  More importantly, things need to change in how mentally tough the CLE guys are.  That message is certainly a good one to send, and crucial for a team like CLE.   Not nearly so much for a winning team.  And for Haley and Landry to be sending a message about changing the mindset of the team - the message "Landry needs to learn how CLE does things" that Hue came up with - is a terrible one.   Context really matters here.

 

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

There's context, though.   McVay believes in that because his team has incorporated the right habits, knows the playbook, etc.  And they have instilled a culture of performance.

Meanwhile, in CLE, they can't even get the right plays in.   They need to work together more.   I actually don't have a problem with legit injuries being treated as such - but getting more time together in practice, etc. - is crucial for a losing team.  Not nearly so much for a winning team.  And for Haley and Landry to be sending a message about changing the mindset of the team - the message "Landry needs to learn how CLE does things" - is a terrible one.   Context really matters here.

 

Again, I disagree. McVay was doing that last year. The Browns have major issues. No doubt about it. I just don't think Landry is correct there. There's no reason you should be risking the health of your players when it doesn't count. McVay routinely rests our veterans to keep them healthy and fresh. He does that in camp and during the season. The reason it doesn't hurt us is because you know what you're getting out of an Andrew Whitworth or Rodger Saffold on Sundays. I don't know how the Browns did things. I know it didn't work. But I don't think it's smart to be telling guys not to sit unless they're seriously injured. We were a losing team until we weren't. Also, Haley tried all of that BS in KC, and his players turned on him.

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Again, I disagree. McVay was doing that last year. The Browns have major issues. No doubt about it. I just don't think Landry is correct there. There's no reason you should be risking the health of your players when it doesn't count. McVay routinely rests our veterans to keep them healthy and fresh. He does that in camp and during the season. The reason it doesn't hurt us is because you know what you're getting out of an Andrew Whitworth or Rodger Saffold on Sundays. I don't know how the Browns did things. I know it didn't work. But I don't think it's smart to be telling guys not to sit unless they're seriously injured. We were a losing team until we weren't. Also, Haley tried all of that BS in KC, and his players turned on him.

Again, though, the situation with Landry is very different than what you are describing in LA.  Landry was talking to his receiver group.  No vets.  Just 1st and 2nd year guys.   And the disagreement with Haley and Hue came because guys like Njoku were given days off specifically to prevent injury - that's what sparked the disagreement between Haley / Hue.

These points are seldom in a vacuum.   It's a long season, vets certainly need to be managed to be at peak.   If this was Landry speaking to vets and guys who'd been around, I get your point.  With that young group, Landry wanted to send a message about playing through nicks and bruises.   I do get your point, though - there's a fine line between tough and dumb / reckless.   Given what CLE has gone through, and the youth in their group, I'll admittedly side with Landry here.  We don't have to agree...I certainly see the merit in other situations, but with that situation, I don't see Hue's handling of either discussion as nuanced, or even acknowledging what either Landry/Haley were trying to achieve.  

[Heinz D.]

42 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I posted this in the other thread in NFLGen, but since there are actual posts that are giving Hue some slack - well, I'll repost this here...

_______________________________

For those who think Hue's a scapegoat, they're not paying attention.

Let's recap:

1.  Hue didn't object at all to passing on Wentz, or Watson.   So he can't lay the problems of not finding QB on Sashi Brown alone.   He was the HC and supposed O guru.  He said it was fine to pass on both, no objections.

2.  This offseason, Jarvis Landry AND OC Todd Haley,  both new, on different occasions, told the team / Hue that they needed to get tougher, and not take practices off.  EPIC speech on Hard Knocks by Landry, convo between Haley & Hue.  Hue's response both times?  He said the players shouldn't practice so much, they risk getting hurt.  And that Landry really "needs to understand how we do things around here".   WTF?   Anyone who saw the speeches...well, I'll let you all decide who's right, coming off a 1-31 2-year run and 0-16 season.  Yeah, Landry should learn how CLE does things.  Because, 0-16 teams really shouldn't risk injury in trying to y'know, learn how to play better as a unit in practice, so they can actually win games.   SMH.

I can't post the youtube link because of the expletives (Webby's rules), but here's the transcript - if you can, make sure you see the ACTUAL video:

(Landry's statements came 2-3 days after Haley and Hue disagreed on the players taking practices off.   Instead of recognizing leadership, and maybe recognizing Haley and Landry had great points, something any good leader is willing to do..... Hue torpedoed Landry's message, saying he needed to learn how CLE does things first....wow).

 

3.  Last year, Hue directly impacted the games with stupid play-call / roster decisions such as:

 

-Having Duke Johnson on the sidelines on key 3rd/4th down passing situations - for Isiaih Crowell. 

-Deciding Jabril Peppers should try FS - when he's clearly a SS.

-Deciding to keep Deshone Kizer as his starting QB, even when he amassed 10 TO's inside the opponent's 5-yard line.  TEN.    For those that said he didn't draft him - he didn't have to keep starting him, anyone (yes, even Kevin Hogan and Cody Kessler) would have done better than that.   But week in, week out, it was Kizer.

-Huge blunder play calls such as calling for a QB sneak from the opponent's 2-yard ine - with less than 20 secs to go in the 1H and no TO’s left.  Failed sneak (duh), can't get on the field in time for a FG...not even close.  

And that's just the obvious stuff.  Browns fans can point to so many more instances of his complete ineptitude at stuff that..well, HC's are supposed to do.

4.  Of course, we shouldn't forget that Hue & Haslem orchestrated the 2.1 for AJ McCarron trade - and then got Haslem to fire Sashi Brown for being the one smart guy in the room who realized that was an awful deal.    And of course, the other 31 teams agreed, since McCarron could only sign as a backup at 5M/1 year in FA...with BUF.     And remember, this is the guy who wanted Brock Osweiler to stay on the roster, when he was asked if Brock had done enough to stay on the team in the preseason, his answer?  "Ask Sashi".   Which brings me to...

5.  The dude has ZERO accountability.  It's always someone else's fault.  Which is a funny notion when you are the HC.   This week, now, of course, what do we hear?   "I need to take over an O when I know it can be better".  Well, news flash - he was calling the O when CLE was 1-31 the last 2 years. 

Hue's really great at throwing others under the bus - Sashi Brown for nixing the AJ McCarron deal, and releasing Brock Osweiler (both completely vindicated), and Todd Haley for "play calling issues now".  It's his MO from his OAK days.  But he's the one who should have been fired, not Sashi Brown.  I mean, the HC is where the buck stops, and everything above was completely under Hue's direct control.   But,  at least his time is coming up.  Because really, there's no one left to blame. 

So yeah, the Browns would absolutely benefit from a different HC.   Last year, you put in a guy who has a clue at HC, they win at least 2 of the 7 games that they lost by 6 points or less.   Anyone who thinks it would be more of the same,  well, they're not watching the games (to be fair, who can blame them, but it's also a completely inaccurate statement to say Hue's not the problem - he's a huuuuuuge part of the problem).  And it's a good thing that CLE is moving on - they'll be better off for it. 

Not to put too weird, or serious, spin on things...but, when you lay it all out like that, it sure sounds like Hue has some big mental problems. If so, it's beyond good that he's gone. 

[vikesfan89]

Who's calling plays now?

 

[DawgX]

16 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

Who's calling plays now?

 

Freddie Kitchens, formerly our RB coach, has been promoted to OC.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

Hue deserves plenty of criticism, but I don't think he's wrong here. That is also McVay's method. Now, there's a difference between being careful about injuries and not taking practice seriously. McVay takes practice very seriously. He looks to squeeze every useful second out of practice, so he's always on our guys to hustle from drill to drill and keep things moving. However, he also takes player safety and risk management very seriously. He's not one of those old school coaches who tries to prove how tough his team is by putting them through the ringer.

Agreed as well.

Hue goofed a bunch, but not this.

Weve had little in the way of soft tissue injuries the last few years (knocks wood).

[Gannon12]

3 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Freddie Kitchens, formerly our RB coach, has been promoted to OC.

That better be Hell’s Kitchen because Mayfield will thrive. I’m so happy you guys dropped the dead weight. Hated Hue, he’s a decent OC but a terrible HC. I want the Browns to reach that next tier this is the first step. The Browns are in the AA of coaches. Hope they got over the addiction of failure. This is the time to rise. You have a franchise qb, an up and coming defense filled with stars. I hope you guys trend high. You deserve it. This team needs the leaders in place to put these magnificent pieces together. 

Dorsey was a beyond amazing hire and it’s showing. Hope he gets the right people in place to move this team forward. A strong Browns team is good for the NFL. I’m still remembering the Bernie days when this was a badass team. I just hope you are on the correct path. 

[CKSteeler]

It should be noted that Hue Jackson is relatively well liked around the league. People say he lacked accountability, and I agree. But look around the league and realize that this is job for these people. Their goal is to keep their job for as long as possible. It's cutthroat. When things go bad, they throw each other under the bus. Hue was able to sell himself to Haslem because he had the backing of the football world to some small extent. Haslem probably gets opinions from a number of football people who rightfully looked at the roster built and the way draft picks were used and scoffed. The roster was terrible, though that doesn't justify Hue Jackson's awfulness. The latter is just something more mundane and typical. Also, it's in the interests of those who probably gave their advice to back Hue over someone like Sashi.

Though let's not be mistaken, Sashi sucked at his primary task of adding talent to the roster. He mostly squandered the resources he acquired.  Being kind of savvy in getting resources can't make up for misusing them once you have them.

The Browns had a bad plan that a lot of people recognized from the get go. They paired unlike individuals to accomplish a great task, and neither was up for it. Both should have been tossed aside together. We've seen a few young coaches who would have been far better hires than Hue Jackson, though let's not forget...Cleveland isn't a desirable stop. Kyle Shanahan can attest to that - I don't think I"ve ever seen anything like that. Coaches flat out refused to even interview for that job.

The patience the Browns showed with a clearly incompetent Hue combined with the core of legitimate young talent they acquired may pay off in the end. Maybe.

[DawgX]

16 minutes ago, Gannon12 said:

That better be Hell’s Kitchen because Mayfield will thrive. I’m so happy you guys dropped the dead weight. Hated Hue, he’s a decent OC but a terrible HC. I want the Browns to reach that next tier this is the first step. The Browns are in the AA of coaches. Hope they got over the addiction of failure. This is the time to rise. You have a franchise qb, an up and coming defense filled with stars. I hope you guys trend high. You deserve it. This team needs the leaders in place to put these magnificent pieces together. 

Dorsey was a beyond amazing hire and it’s showing. Hope he gets the right people in place to move this team forward. A strong Browns team is good for the NFL. I’m still remembering the Bernie days when this was a badass team. I just hope you are on the correct path. 

Thank you, brother. I hope so too. I hope your Raiders get it together as well. It'd be great to see both teams atop the AFC and the NFL again.

[footbull3196]

6 hours ago, Oregon Ducks said:

They just fired their best coach since their rebirth. 

I thought that was Butch Davis