Relationship Advice Thread

[minutemancl]

7 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Yeah those incel pieces are always good for a laugh.

Really though I don't do it as a gotcha to anyone. It's better for both parties if we're just up front about it enough to get a sense of whether we're wasting each other's time or not. Same with kids. There's no reasonable compromise, let's just get that stuff out of the way.

The common thing I've heard now is "I want kids if it is with the right person". That is such a noncommittal response to me. Feels like it is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't ultimately compromise on yes/no, and what happens if one person thinks the other is the right person, but it doesn't go both ways? The only compromise you can make on kids is the number, as long as it is greater than 0. Otherwise, it's not gonna go well.

[Kiltman]

1 hour ago, minutemancl said:

What a lot of times is referred to as 'politics' are actually strong moral beliefs. Not sharing those is definitely a sign that a relationship won't last. There have been multiple articles published recently that women who hold predominately popular political views, now more than ever, refuse to date men who do not share those views. It's a new world!

It's for sure happening a lot.

I get a lot of second hand gossip from my fiancee about her friends and it's been grounds for cancelling a date or leaving a date for a lot of them that are still single. 

I mean people often have had that reaction when there is something diametrically opposed to a core belief, just seems more and more the last 8-10 years have shifted their political opinions into being a giant part of their belief system and who they are. It's so easy to get updated on what your sector of the spectrum should care about. 

20 hours ago, twslhs20 said:

politics, religion, money, and children, seem to be the main pillars for new relationships. If you don't have common ground on those, the relationship is doomed from the start. And, even if you are, things can still get messy.

I think this speaks to it too, because a lot of the other pillars are becoming diminished or uniform.

Like broadly everyone needs money now, a lot more people realize how tough things are to add kids into the mix nowadays. Seems like way more people are in the "hell no" to kids or way more "eh, maybe" about them.

Politics remains as the more diversified pillar and is engulfing the others. Like you think about it the other 3 are people touched on with some major political things nowadays.

 

 

I mean i get it. In a world where it's hard to make due, you don't think you can financially/consciously have kids, you just want the sinking ship to not be so bad on the way down. And don't want to spend your energy on someone who you think is adding water instead of trying to bucket it out.

[Kiltman]

2 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

The common thing I've heard now is "I want kids if it is with the right person". That is such a noncommittal response to me. Feels like it is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't ultimately compromise on yes/no, and what happens if one person thinks the other is the right person, but it doesn't go both ways? The only compromise you can make on kids is the number, as long as it is greater than 0. Otherwise, it's not gonna go well.

Definitely is a non-committal thing. It's fine to kick the can down the road a bit on that one but obviously you want to know if they are firmly in a camp and just not saying. 

It's an opinion that ebbs and flows for a lot of people too.

I think some people, like myself, might think they'd enjoy it or would be good at it... but might be wary of having them for any number of reasons. And would ultimately be fine if they didn't. 

[minutemancl]

12 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

Definitely is a non-committal thing. It's fine to kick the can down the road a bit on that one but obviously you want to know if they are firmly in a camp and just not saying. 

It's an opinion that ebbs and flows for a lot of people too.

I think some people, like myself, might think they'd enjoy it or would be good at it... but might be wary of having them for any number of reasons. And would ultimately be fine if they didn't. 

That's very true. It's something I definitely overlook often when thinking/talking about this stuff. My wife and I were both able to say very confidently we wanted kids in the future while we were dating. I think no/no works, yes/yes works, but there are levels of grey that will work as well. It all comes back to what I mentioned pages ago though, that you've gotta be honest with yourself when answering that question when a SO asks. Leaving it open for interpretation when you do really want kids or really don't want kids is asking for trouble.

[ramssuperbowl99]

26 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

The common thing I've heard now is "I want kids if it is with the right person". That is such a noncommittal response to me. Feels like it is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't ultimately compromise on yes/no, and what happens if one person thinks the other is the right person, but it doesn't go both ways? The only compromise you can make on kids is the number, as long as it is greater than 0. Otherwise, it's not gonna go well.

I mean even that is good information. Translates to, "this person is not mature enough to be dating".

I see it with single moms who either are leading with a picture of their entire family, or they avoid bringing it up as long as humanly possible. 

[Kiltman]

1 hour ago, minutemancl said:

That's very true. It's something I definitely overlook often when thinking/talking about this stuff. My wife and I were both able to say very confidently we wanted kids in the future while we were dating. I think no/no works, yes/yes works, but there are levels of grey that will work as well. It all comes back to what I mentioned pages ago though, that you've gotta be honest with yourself when answering that question when a SO asks. Leaving it open for interpretation when you do really want kids or really don't want kids is asking for trouble.

Yeah you have to be honest about it, presenting a firm yes or no can really help force the issue. 

I think a lot of times the “with the right person” thing is just like not wanting to flip into I’m a mom/dad now mode so quick. That maybe you are a bit more individualistic and not done being you yet. Or maybe don’t want to be seen as just a womb to people you are seeing or vice versa. 

It’s like ideally I found someone I like enough that I feel good taking that next step and not as much on the other person as that statement seems. It’s like more how you feel rather than how they are if that makes sense.

Reasons for change are various. Right now I have to quiet down the thought of doing it now so the kid has two sets of grandparents who would be young enough to keep up and be like all about the kid. Cause that’s a heavy bill to pay just because your parents/in-laws want grandkids. But it’s been a whole of things really over the years.

[Daniel]

Yeah, I wouldn’t date someone on the opposite end of the political spectrum, because by definition, I would be of the opinion that they’re a garbage person.

Pretty hard to overcome that.

[Heimdallr]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

Yeah, I wouldn’t date someone on the opposite end of the political spectrum, because by definition, I would be of the opinion that they’re a garbage person.

Pretty hard to overcome that.

Exactly. I don’t care if a billionaire supermodel wanted to date me, if they are a nazi it is a hard no. 

[beekay414]

1 hour ago, Heimdallr said:

Exactly. I don’t care if a billionaire supermodel wanted to date me, if they are a nazi it is a hard no. 

First question...

Is there going to be a prenup if we get married? LOL

[twslhs20]

7 hours ago, Daniel said:

Yeah, I wouldn’t date someone on the opposite end of the political spectrum, because by definition, I would be of the opinion that they’re a garbage person.

Pretty hard to overcome that.

This is generally how I feel. I can hold civil discussions and test my belief system. However, as I test, I continue to find that my core values only get stronger.

I say what is on my mind, and I express how I feel. Walking on eggshells isn't conducive to a lasting relationship.

[MWil23]

18 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I mean even that is good information. Translates to, "this person is not mature enough to be dating".

I see it with single moms who either are leading with a picture of their entire family, or they avoid bringing it up as long as humanly possible. 

We have had the kids conversation before here, but I can’t emphasize enough that any couple should talk about this in the early-ish stages of dating (assuming you’re on the same page about looking for something serious).

Talk about them and approximate how many you want. My wife wanted 4 and I wanted 2-4, and told her up front that any more than 2 would be evaluated on a dynamic case by case basis or a hard no. I was “properly whelmed” after 2 and compromised with #3 (and thankful I did), but I straight up told her 3 was it unless God intervened with twins and if she wanted a third, quote “We are starting to try NOW.” 9 months later she came along and I made a vasectomy appointment when she was 3 days old.

My wife loved and respected me enough to be good with three, because honestly I’m a great husband and father with 3. With more than that I feel as though it would be a daily challenge.

If anyone stays vague about kids, RUN, whether that’s having or not having them. Those of you in puppy love think you’re the only ones who have ever felt that way (you’re not) and “that person will be enough” if deep down you want kids. He or she won’t be. 

I would also throw the caveat of “life happens” in there. Some kids have unique and special circumstances and needs that may change “the number” (more or less), so be honest with your spouse as these feelings arise. After a few weeks of grinding as a parent caring for kids who have been needy, sick, and young, my wife made me play golf twice last week, and let me tell you, she was right. It did the soul good. Picture that but on a “forever” level if you can’t handle another kid. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by MWil23

[MWil23]

19 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Yeah those incel pieces are always good for a laugh.

Really though I don't do it as a gotcha to anyone. It's better for both parties if we're just up front about it enough to get a sense of whether we're wasting each other's time or not. Same with kids. There's no reasonable compromise, let's just get that stuff out of the way.

10-15 years ago people called me small minded for being up front since before date 1 to tell a girl that I wouldn’t date a non Christian since my faith is the most important thing in my life. I’ve banged the drum for the opposite and I’m right. Why string along both of our emotions? Why have parenting conflicts? Political/ethical issues? I’ve argued that being up front and honest in those situations shows that you genuinely care about someone else, and that’s been from date 1. If someone thinks that’s coming on strong, perhaps so, but it shows me that philosophically they don’t share the same “serious” philosophy of dating that I did/most here are at now.

[ramssuperbowl99]

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

10-15 years ago people called me small minded for being up front since before date 1 to tell a girl that I wouldn’t date a non Christian since my faith is the most important thing in my life. I’ve banged the drum for the opposite and I’m right. Why string along both of our emotions? Why have parenting conflicts? Political/ethical issues? I’ve argued that being up front and honest in those situations shows that you genuinely care about someone else, and that’s been from date 1. If someone thinks that’s coming on strong, perhaps so, but it shows me that philosophically they don’t share the same “serious” philosophy of dating that I did/most here are at now.

Scientifically, the answer to this is that people are really bad at honestly articulating what they want, to the point that it's a running gag that people find love when they are just looking for a fling, but you're 100% right that if in your heart of hearts you know it won't work, then it won't work. 

I don't screen for religion for 2 reasons. First, by screening for politics I already am in an indirect way. But more generally whether someone is religious doesn't tell me how much they care about it. Do they show up on holidays only, are they weekly, do they adhere to the don't-do-list, are they bothered by non-believers, or are they more going through the motions?

I have a college buddy nicknamed Spud (as in, he looks like a potato) who took his vows in Islam without a bit of sincerity because he's marrying into a devout Islamic family, while his wife is secretly apathetic about religion entirely. Sometimes, you have to get to know someone a little bit more, and what looks like a nominally stark difference to an outsider - a Catholic and a Sunni Muslim - isn't because they're really both apathetic, so it works. But that wouldn't work for you or a lot of other people.

Edited June 29, 2022 by ramssuperbowl99

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Scientifically, the answer to this is that people are really bad at honestly articulating what they want, to the point that it's a running gag that people find love when they are just looking for a fling, but you're 100% right that if in your heart of hearts you know it won't work, then it won't work. 

I don't screen for religion for 2 reasons. First, by screening for politics I'm already am in an indirect way. But more generally whether someone is religious doesn't tell me how much they care about it. Do they show up on holidays only, are they weekly, do they adhere to the don't-do-list, are they bothered by non-believers, or are they more going through the motions? 
 

I think this says a lot about our values and the inverse being true here. I’d wager you are likely generally apathetic or indifferent to religious beliefs (perhaps I’m wrong if so I apologize) but would genuinely hold more to the political value system, whereas for me, aside from my basic priority difference of my faith being #1, the inverse applies.

It tells me that they’re all in on getting plugged into a local church, serving alongside me, giving money to the church/various local ministries, etc which actually factors into parenting, budgeting, etc in an indirect manner.

4 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I have a college buddy nicknamed Spud (as in, he looks like a potato) who took his vows in Islam without a bit of sincerity because he's marrying into a devout Islamic family, while his wife is secretly apathetic about religion entirely. Sometimes, you have to get to know someone a little bit more, and what looks like a nominally stark difference to an outsider - a Catholic and a Sunni Muslim - isn't because they're really both apathetic, so it works. But that wouldn't work for you or a lot of other people.

Spud…how can people not love the Midwest?

Yeah this example is the paradox I’m referencing.

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, MWil23 said:

I think this says a lot about our values and the inverse being true here. I’d wager you are likely generally apathetic or indifferent to religious beliefs (perhaps I’m wrong if so I apologize) but would genuinely hold more to the political value system, whereas for me, aside from my basic priority difference of my faith being #1, the inverse applies.

It tells me that they’re all in on getting plugged into a local church, serving alongside me, giving money to the church/various local ministries, etc which actually factors into parenting, budgeting, etc in an indirect manner.

Nope - you're 100% correct.

It's kind of a chicken or the egg thing. We're both trying to figure out if the other person is decent and compatible, I'm working backwards starting with how the beliefs are applied, you're starting at the belief and moving forward. Either approach works.